<Tavmjong> --------------------------- Inkscape Board Meeting --------------------------<tweenk> First thing we can talk about for the board meeting is Hackfest 2016<parclytaxel> OK, pertinent question #1: Inkscape's structure is all over the place, what are we to do?<parclytaxel> I mean, the modules and the functions and the others are all a mess.<ScislaC> tweenk: Is the goal to have it coincide with LGM again?<tweenk> parclytaxel: identify self contained portions of functionality and split them off to be compiled as separate shared libs, I think<parclytaxel> Bryce, that's a priority<tweenk> ScislaC: I guess so, this way there's no need to pay 2 separate flight fees if we want the devs to attend LGM as well<Tavmjong> parclytaxel: We can discuss that Inskcape structure under "New Business"<tweenk> so there were 4 proposals for the hackfest venue - London, Leeds, Warsaw, Phnom Penh<parclytaxel> Inkscape can be split into two: the computational part (2geom and the filter libs), the parsing part (that converts to and from SVG syntax) and the display part (that shows the results)<FailBit> parclytaxel: please hold<Mc-> LGM is London, right ?<FailBit> also that's 3<Tavmjong> Based on the Toronto LGM, I wouldn't put attending as a high priority... although it did lead to getting OpenTYpe into Inkscape.<Tavmjong> Yes, London.<tweenk> I guess we should focus on London and Leeds since Phnom Penh is very far from the LGM venue and I will no longer be in Warsaw by that time<Tavmjong> You'll be in California?<tweenk> Tavmjong: yes<Tavmjong> Great!<Tavmjong> I agree London and Leeds are preferred (although I would love to visit Phnom Pehn again).<parclytaxel> Phnom is a bad place, Tavm<parclytaxel> I'd prefer Amsterdam or something<bryce> hi<Tavmjong> I think Leeds is considerably cheaper.<parclytaxel> hi bryce<bryce> sorry, my wife just arrived and distracted me<parclytaxel> And it's 3am in Singapore<Tavmjong> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2016/<Tavmjong> LGM is April 15-18<ScislaC> tweenk: you going to be working on the Google campus?<parclytaxel> OK, so I believe Inkscape is too monolithic and needs some splitting<tweenk> ScislaC: yes<ScislaC> tweenk: when do you head out there?<bryce> so thanks all for coming to the Inkscape board meeting, and welcome to martin and kk<parclytaxel> Bryce, I have identified the three main components: computation, SVG interfacing and display.<tweenk> ScislaC: start date is 25th November<tweenk> ScislaC: (IIRC)<ScislaC> very cool<FailBit> parclytaxel: hold off on this until the topic is pertinent<bryce> like I suggested in the announcement, I figure we can keep the floor open agenda-wise, but keep in mind our focus here with this is more for non-technical matters<bryce> Tavmjong, you had some agenda items and already said a few words on LGM, why don't you dive into that a bit more<Tavmjong> I think we should ping Alex and see if he can host a hackfest before or after LGM.* ScislaC nods<tweenk> Tavmjong: I agree, hosting it in Leeds will be a lot cheaper.<tweenk> and London would be our backup plan then.<Tavmjong> So I can take an action to contact Alex.<bryce> Tavmjong, perfect thanks<parclytaxel> Tavm, next?<Tavmjong> We'll need to start thinking about fund raising.<bryce> Tavmjong, right<Tavmjong> It would be good to have a list of concrete things that resulted from the last hackfest.<bryce> if it helps, I recently posted some of the fundraising ideas we discussed last hackfest to wiki.<bryce> there's some good ideas there, might thumb through and see if any strike a fancy<Tavmjong> We started work on a bunch of things at the hackfest but I don't know how many got carried through.<parclytaxel> So what were the best ideas?<bryce> agreed re: list. You had written up a technical summary, maybe that'd give a starting point?<tweenk> Tavmjong: I did most of the 2Geom sync on the hackfest<Tavmjong> tweenk: good point. I got OpenType features working. How close are we on cmake?<parclytaxel> (There are chatters on #derpibooru)<tweenk> which was very long overdue since the API has changed in several important places<tweenk> one thing that as started but not finished was the GTK3 flickering fix<tweenk> *was<Tavmjong> The one big thing that I don't think has progressed is fixing are render to work with Gtk3.<tweenk> And now gtkmm 3.x requires C++11 so I guess we are blocked on that?<bryce> parclytaxel, really I don't think you could say any were "best" ideas. A good execution is the important part.<JonCruz> we probably need to update state of things. Keeping in mind that "C++11" is not a single thing, but a collection of differently implemented features<Tavmjong> I think gtkmm 2.x also requires C++11<bryce> Tavmjong, cmake went from broken to basic usability<bryce> still some odds and ends needed but it's real close<ScislaC> tweenk: glib 2.46 also requires C++11<JonCruz> *which* C++11 is key<Tavmjong> I don't think we need C++11 in Fedora 23 but definitely in Fedora 24.<Tavmjong> ... so we still have a little time.<ScislaC> bryce: I use cmake to build trunk at this point<tweenk> ScislaC: is that glib or glibmm? Isn't glib C-only?<JonCruz> e.g. we'd need to see which compiler versions can be dropped. gcc 4.6 is most problematic in its C++11<FailBit> glibmm is horrifying, honestly<tweenk> FailBit: but it's a dependency for gtkmm<FailBit> ("let's undefine G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED so we can use deprecated features and expect nothing to break!")<bryce> Tavmjong, getting back to LGM, last time most of the talks were only marginally pertinent to us, and the number of useful contacts we made seemed a bit limited to me. Do you think London will be a lot better on those measures? Or if not, would there be a different conference we should consider hooking the hackfest to?<FailBit> tweenk: gtkmm does the same horrid thing<ScislaC> tweenk: it was upstream glib that bumped the compiler requirements from what I recall<Tavmjong> If you know of a better conference, I would be open to that. What is the conference in Belgium every year?<parclytaxel> Solvay<bryce> well I was wondering if a more gnome-oriented conference might give us better connections<tweenk> FailBit: ah I remember that issue now...<Tavmjong> I'm thinking of FOSDEM. Anybody been?<bryce> no but heard great things<parclytaxel> I can't go to any confs, I'm a Singaporean<Tavmjong> It's in January so it would be tight to organize.<tweenk> Tavmjong: LGM was basically my only exposure to open source conferences* doctormon (d106bc82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.209.6.188.130) has joined #inkscape-devel<parclytaxel> And the confs held in Singapore are big business<doctormon> bryce: late!<Mc-> never been to any (yet)<Tavmjong> parclytaxel: Why not? The do have a big airport in Singapore.<bryce> doctormon, better than never!<Tavmjong> s/The/They/<doctormon> bryce: :-) what's the agenda?<parclytaxel> ???<bryce> doctormon, open agenda. Current topic LGM/Hackfest for 2016.<Mc-> doctormon: we're talking about LGM and the hackfest<parclytaxel> Singapore has the (2nd) highest GDP (PPP) per capita in the whole world<FailBit> it's also not a great place to live<parclytaxel> So lots of corporations come here, not lots of hippies<Tavmjong> bryce: I think LGM has shifted focus some and may have lost its way.<bryce> yeah :-/<parclytaxel> I'm a hacker in a sea of 5.5 million (mostly) non-hackers<doctormon> Tavmjong: What's the way and the mis-way?<tweenk> Tavmjong, bryce can you elaborate?<Tavmjong> I rather like Singapore... although it was wickedly hot and humid.<bryce> tweek, it used to be more focused on software development, now seems to be more focused to art and end user use cases<parclytaxel> And there's a haze right now. PSI peaked at 340 a few days ago.<bryce> which isn't *bad* just different, and maybe not as pertinent to our more immediate needs<ScislaC> tweenk: ahhh, I was misremembering, the glib requirement bump was related to OS X version (it just happened to coincide with glibmm's compiler requirement bump)<Tavmjong> doctormon: At the beginning, I think, LGM brought lots of developers together. Last year there didn't seem to be a very large developer presence.<Mc-> hearing what users expect from inkscape might be interesting<parclytaxel> Mc-: It is now PONY driven.<Mc-> (or just advertising inkscape to them)<Tavmjong> Sorry, I type too slow.<tweenk> bryce: so it's more an user oriented conference, is that right?<parclytaxel> By far the largest and most popular users of Inkscape are bronies.<bryce> tweenk, at least the 2015 one I'd say artist oriented<FailBit> parclytaxel: I disagree<ScislaC> It seems like it's shifting that way.<Mc-> cutters/plotters too :P<bryce> Inkscape got plenty of name drops, admittedly<parclytaxel> Liam is a brony, I am a brony and the power stroke is in fact the lroduct of many bronies asking for that feature to be ported from AI to Inkscape<JonCruz> parclytaxel: those were just a subset of users asking<FailBit> no it actually isn't<FailBit> power stroke was actually designed for calligraphy<bryce> Tavmjong, Jan feels a bit too soon to get plans in place for a hackfest though<JonCruz> cloths makers were another group<Tavmjong> bryce: I agree. So LGM may still be our best bet.<bryce> Tavmjong, what if we arranged to send a couple folks that are ~localish to scout it out this year, and then target it for 2017?<doctormon> parclytaxel: I'm a brony too<parclytaxel> Have it in Singapore, I want to see your faces.<JonCruz> does OSCON or OSBridge draw enough inkscapers?<parclytaxel> Everfree Northwest is a sure-fire, Jon<JonCruz> parclytaxel: LGM avoided the USA due to concerns about the government. Singapore might be similar for many<bryce> OSCON is way too expensive<bryce> don't know anything about OSBridge<JonCruz> bryce: mainly wondering about the people near<doctormon> We could always critical mass LGM and draw up a list of people from other FS projects; developers etc who we'd consider valuable enough to attend for?<JonCruz> SCALE is too inkscaper sparse<bryce> JonCruz, oh was just about to ask<ScislaC> JonCruz: I would disagree<JonCruz> ScislaC: two does not quite hit critical mass :-)<bryce> doctormon, that's a good idea... same could be done for any conference though<ScislaC> I think we should do a test for pr pushing that we'll have a booth there for January and see if we get a better turnout.<JonCruz> very true<JonCruz> at the least we can do a SCALE mini-Hackfest BoF<bryce> cool, so the ideas so far: PR push for SCALE, scouts to FOSDEM, hackfest at LGM.<tweenk> by SCALE you mean this? http://www.atscaleconference.com/<Tavmjong> The advantage of LGM is it gives us something to focus on... if only a couple of Inkscapers attend, so be it. The real focus for us would be in Leeds.<Tavmjong> The LGM timing is good.<ScislaC> JonCruz: we still have no clue how much it will affect general attendance with SCALE being in Pasadena<parclytaxel> Can I possibly teleconference?<JonCruz> https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/14x<bryce> https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/14x<Tavmjong> parclytaxel: I don't understand why you couldn't attend in person. We plan on supporting travel for Inkscape developers.<JonCruz> parclytaxel: something to look at for SCALE. In general their IT/Network team is tops.<doctormon> Tavmjong: Leeds is good for me, I can stay with my mum :-)<parclytaxel> First of all, I'm only 17<ScislaC> Went out to the convention center a couple months ago... we have SO MUCH more space.<parclytaxel> My parents are frugal<parclytaxel> And then in a year I'll be conscripted into the army<doctormon> parclytaxel: I wish you the best; must be a pita<bryce> ok so Tavmjong you will investigate London/Leeds/LGM/Hackfest a bit more and report back?<parclytaxel> I'm also studying organic chemistry<parclytaxel> bryce: LLLH. Nice.<Tavmjong> parclytaxel: At 17? Not bad.<bryce> JonCruz and ScislaC you can mind meld on ways we can improve Inkscaper turnout at SCALE?<Tavmjong> bryce: Yes. I'll investigate more.<JonCruz> can also teach tweenk about commuter flights from the bay area :-)<bryce> anyone want to look into fosdem?<Tavmjong> I can also checkout Fosdem.<ScislaC> bryce: Yep. I will also see about talking to SCALE's PR team to see if they can lend a hand.<bryce> Tavmjong, great<bryce> ok, some good action items there. Let's move on to a new discussion topic.<parclytaxel> Yes, Inkscape is spaghetti.<bryce> who's got another agenda item for us?<doctormon> I'll er, look around :-)<Tavmjong> We forgot to welcome new board members... so Welcome!!!<parclytaxel> And I mean when I was trying to fix some bugs, I had to crane my neck around modules.<ScislaC> Welcome!!!<bryce> ah right, welcome doctormon and tweenk !<parclytaxel> Er, me?<Tavmjong> How about GSOC 2016 next?<tweenk> :)<parclytaxel> Then again... the nextagenda topic<bryce> ok<tweenk> Tavmjong: yep<Tavmjong> ------------- GSoC 2016 -------------<Tavmjong> We kind of let ourselves down last year. We need a better recruiting web site according to Google, right ScislaC ?<ScislaC> That's part of it...<parclytaxel> The FSA?<doctormon> Website? I didn't get any details on that requirement :-(<parclytaxel> What is that about?<ScislaC> We need to have more specific information.<Tavmjong> I got the feeling that they expected better defined projects with mentor names attached.<ScislaC> Correct<bryce> yeah they had some specific requirements about project description and identified mentors per-project and such<bryce> they posted a pretty specific set of requirements, we just didn't get all the checkboxes crossed off in time<Tavmjong> First, do we agree we should do GSoC in 2016?<ScislaC> I think that instead of the existing bulleted list, I will see about reorganizing into tables.<parclytaxel> Don't, Tavm<parclytaxel> Don't be controlled by Google<tweenk> Tavmjong: so far it was a major driver of feature work<Tavmjong> I agree it's worth pursuing.<tweenk> parclytaxel: Google doesn't control what work gets done during GSoC, we and the students do<doctormon> It does get things done<parclytaxel> We should, instead, corral indie devs to come along<bryce> to me it depends a lot on if we have admins and mentors available to manage it<bryce> it's easy to overlook how much time commitment that end requires<doctormon> yeah<parclytaxel> Self-regulation.<Tavmjong> I am willing to spend some time on the website and help admin (as well as mentor).<Tavmjong> Anybody else?<ScislaC> I'm willing to Admin again<bryce> ScislaC, are you still able and willing to lead us?<ScislaC> yep<parclytaxel> I've always liked how systems arise naturally without supervision from small things.<tweenk> It's also important to prepare the stage, e.g. it's much easier for students to work on something that's reasonably well documented<Tavmjong> tweenk: I definitely agree!<JonCruz> ScislaC: and get me in as backup admin right away<doctormon> I'm pretty much the website man, we got a project app if that's of help<parclytaxel> So we may, for example with our own dev "apprenticeship", have two or three devs<tweenk> Tamvjong: I can mentor, but right now I have no idea how much free time I'll have<Tavmjong> OK, so ScislaC, JonCruz, and I can tackle getting us ready.<bryce> cool<tweenk> Tavmjong: so I would be able to make a commitment in ~January I think<parclytaxel> And when they get lovey-dovey we can introduce some more<bryce> we should also look into recruiting a larger pool of potential mentors<Tavmjong> tweenk: Remember to protect your 20% personal project time!<ScislaC> agreed<Tavmjong> bryce: Definitely agree.<bryce> we won't know how many slots we get, but we should make sure we have manpower to scale up if we get a lot of slots<parclytaxel> So are going to GSoC?<tweenk> Tavmjong: I will keep that in mind :)<Mc-> tweenk: you can mentor while being at google ? cool<tweenk> Mc-: hm, I need to double check<parclytaxel> *we<ScislaC> Tavmjong: from what I hear, it's a myth... it's apparently frowned upon to not work on what you're normally working on with that 20%... however, perhaps that's just within the Chrome team.<bryce> would be highly ironic if he couldn't<Tavmjong> Shall we move on to FSA?<parclytaxel> Kya<bryce> Tavmjong, ok<bryce> so, last I've heard, we were down to one last signoff needed<Tavmjong> ------------------------ Fiscal Sponsership Agreement -----------------<bryce> and that person has indicated they've done it. So afaik everything's done on our end.<parclytaxel> What do we already have?<bryce> but I've not heard from SFC on it one way or another<bryce> I figure we should consider the new FSA now official and in effect<parclytaxel> Bryce, what are the most important points?<doctormon> ok<Tavmjong> So we just need to ping them? (I sitll need to send in the paper copy... bad me.)<parclytaxel> If I somehow get my university to sponsor it<bryce> If folks want, I can take the action of following up to verify this, but it's been such a long process I kind of don't want to stir anything up! ;-)<bryce> Tavmjong, oops, yeah get that in. Might be they're waiting on odds and ends like that to filter in.<bryce> anyone else not sent in the papers?<tweenk> bryce: I'm a little out of the loop here, this FSA is a form contract for when a company wants to sponsor Inkscape?<parclytaxel> I think zo<parclytaxel> *so<Tavmjong> No... its our agreement with the Software Freedom Conservancy.<bryce> tweenk, sort of; actually it's the contract between Inkscape and the Software Freedom Conservancy, that allows them to handle our money and legal matters, and specifies requirements we must follow to remain non-profit legally<ScislaC> I mailed mine<tweenk> bryce: Ah, OK. Any action required on my part?<bryce> tweenk, I suspect you'll need to sign it as well. I assumed they'd have contacted you about that.<bryce> doctormon, anyone from SFC contact you?<ScislaC> tweenk: did you print it, sign it, scan it, email a copy to SFC, and mail them the original?<Tavmjong> bryce: I don't think they need the new board member signatures. Wasn't that the reason to hold off a couple of days on announcing the results?<doctormon> bryce: no<tweenk> ScislaC: nope, it's new to me, I can do it next week<bryce> ok, I'll take the action to follow up on this, and make sure whatever paperwork is needed gets to tweenk and doctormon<parclytaxel> And make sure you do<bryce> tweenk and doctormon probably we'll need mailing addresses, but I'll contact you offlist.<bryce> Tavmjong, yeah I'll need to doublecheck that. In any case, I'll do some digging and follow up.<Tavmjong> OK, should we move onto Website statement for code of conduct and privacy policy?<doctormon> yhanks bryce<bryce> Tavmjong, sounds good<bryce> doctormon, want to take the mike here?<Tavmjong> ------------------- Website statement for code of conduct and privacy policy -----------------<Tavmjong> What needs to be done? Who is driving it?<parclytaxel> Er, what does the code of conduct apply to?<su_v> https://inkscape.org/en/community/coc/<su_v> "THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS!!!"<doctormon> code of conduct is for anyone chatting, posting, uploading art to the website<doctormon> Since people can be interacting as user to user on our website, we needed to state the rules.<ScislaC> su_v!!!!* su_v waves back<doctormon> The text in the link su_v has posted needs redrafting into something agreeable.<parclytaxel> Pull it from Derpi<Tavmjong> doctormon: Who is going to do that? What is the process?<FailBit> rather don't<parclytaxel> They have clearer rules<FailBit> and are not hosted in the US<FailBit> and have rather different ideals in mind<FailBit> don't do that.<parclytaxel> Wait a minute.<JonCruz> their certs out of date, but... http://adainitiative.org/2014/02/18/howto-design-a-code-of-conduct-for-your-community/<parclytaxel> That statemenr about "we accept everyone regardless of..."<doctormon> Tavmjong: We (Maren and I) passed it back to the board for review.<bryce> I had done a heavy copyedit of this some time back. Not sure if anyone's touched it since then, but I seem to recall thinking at the time that it felt good enough at least for a first cut<bryce> likely would benefit from a second round of copyediting<Tavmjong> OK, so we should all read it and give comments on the board mailing list?* Perendinating has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)<bryce> I'm willing to give it another go but I think a different set of eyes next would be the most beneficial<doctormon> Or we could elect the next person to edit the page and then let them come back?<ScislaC> I will give it a thorough look over too.<doctormon> Or queue up the three or four people who haven't had a chance to take turns<tweenk> bryce: I think the CoC could be cut down a little. We basically want people to be respectful and refrain from personal attacks in any form<bryce> remember that it's editable via the website<bryce> I think revisions are tracked too, in which case Just Do It might be easiest all around<bryce> doctormon, a queue's not a bad idea actually<Tavmjong> How about if ScislaC gives it a look over followed by tweenk and then we then open up a discussion on the mailing list.<bryce> put me on the end slot<bryce> Tavmjong, +1<doctormon> Tavmjong doesnt want a spot? :-)<Tavmjong> I'll comment on the mailing list after is perfect....<bryce> he can be manager ;-)<doctormon> Yay<Tavmjong> s/after is/after it is/<doctormon> OK +1 Tavmjong<tweenk> Tavmjong: OK, I can commit to reviewing the CoC no later than Sunday and posting my feedback to the mailing list<parclytaxel> Bryce, resolve disputes yourself<ScislaC> Sounds like a plan<bryce> ok, next topic?<parclytaxel> There is no point in leaving the ramble to the users<Tavmjong> I'm running out of time.... maybe one more topic for today?<parclytaxel> Yes!<parclytaxel> The one I mentioned earlier.<ScislaC> parclytaxel: that's not really board material honestly<bryce> Tavmjong, I'd actually like to status check on the funded development real quick<parclytaxel> OK, go ahead<tweenk> parclytaxel: I'll be here after the meeting and we can discuss<Tavmjong> parclytaxel: Maybe we can arrange a technical IRC meeting.<bryce> last we touched on it, iirc next action was getting two of the project descriptions fleshed out<parclytaxel> Hm. Sounds reasonable.<bryce> ScislaC, I think you took one and Tav took the other?<Tavmjong> --------------------- Funded Development -----------------------<bryce> (technical irc meeting sounds like a great idea actually...)<Tavmjong> That was so long ago... I remember working on it but don't know the status.<tweenk> bryce: agree<doctormon> +1 on technical meeting.<bryce> * inkscape: Write up GSList project [Tav]<bryce> * inkscape: Finalize/polish SVG2 flowtext [Josh]<bryce> is what I have on my list<ScislaC> I'll email the devel-list re: setting a technical meeting date/time.<bryce> ScislaC, thanks<Tavmjong> I did do that. (Since then, half of the work has been done so the project will be smaller.)<bryce> Tavmjong, oh good to hear<doctormon> Great<parclytaxel> Note that I'll be on a holiday to South Korea in late November to early December so...<ScislaC> bryce: I haven't touched it for months, I can put it on my todo list for next week to get it finished up.<bryce> Tavmjong, mind doublechecking that the description is still up to date and adequate? I think we also needed deliverables identified and a few other such details. I can help with that if it isn't clear what exactly's needed.<ScislaC> parclytaxel: I'm going to suggest it for next week, don't worry about it.<parclytaxel> But that is when I will be having exams.<parclytaxel> I need to MUG!!!<ScislaC> parclytaxel: week after next?<parclytaxel> Hm, let me see..<Tavmjong> I'm looking at http://staging.inkscape.org/en/project/remove-all-use-of-glist-and-gslist/ but that isn't the latest text.<JonCruz> would be good to get some accurate performance measurements going.<bryce> ok, that's all on funded dev for now. Once those descriptions are finalized next steps are web app dev and some PR, much of which I'll own.<JonCruz> having metrics could help those<bryce> thanks all for coming to this meeting. Shall we do again in a month?<parclytaxel> They end on 15 October, Scislac<doctormon> bryce: +1 sounds good.<Tavmjong> Maybe one more sooner and then once a month since we missed some things.<ScislaC> sounds good to me too<tweenk> Tavmjong: OK<doctormon> bryce can you let me know if you want to work on the project app together?<parclytaxel> So is the meeting over?<ScislaC> parclytaxel: if you're not subbed to the devel list, I'd recommend it since that is where the discussion about availability will happen.<bryce> Tavmjong, ok sort of a halloween special :-)<Tavmjong> Yup.<bryce> doctormon, yes would love to<parclytaxel> How can I sub?<bryce> doctormon, for me these days mostly it's a function of scraping together chunks of time<Tavmjong> OK, I'm going to sign off..... See you all...<bryce> l8r Tavmjong<parclytaxel> G'day, everyone!<tweenk> parclytaxel: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel<tweenk> Bye Tav<ScislaC> see ya Tavmjong!* jabiertxof has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)<Mc-> I have (investigate style.cpp refactor (url() style items should use URIReference)) and (investigate transforms, some things need cleaning) on my "will have to do some day" todolist<doctormon> Bye Tavmjong<doctormon> bryce: I understand :-) we may need to sync up a block to at least get you set up and rolling
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