Nov 04 12:00:50 <Tavmjong> ============ Board Meeting ==============Nov 04 12:01:08 <Tavmjong> Who's here?Nov 04 12:01:11 <doctormon> I'm hereNov 04 12:01:36 <rindolf> Tavmjong: I amNov 04 12:01:43 <rindolf> su_v: hi'Nov 04 12:01:45 <Tavmjong> tedg, bryce, ScislaC ?Nov 04 12:01:48 <Lazur> hiNov 04 12:01:50 <brynn> I might need to leave earlyNov 04 12:02:01 <Tavmjong> su_v: Hi!!!Nov 04 12:02:09 <bryce> hey heyNov 04 12:02:34 <su_v> hi allNov 04 12:02:59 <bryce> brynn, then let's start with the forum. How are things proceeding?Nov 04 12:03:12 <Tavmjong> ====== Forum =======Nov 04 12:03:39 <brynn> We're having sporadic talks with OSUOSL, and it looks like they can probably host the forum, but it's not definite yetNov 04 12:04:00 <brynn> Currently waiting for response from Courtney, re some stats they asked forNov 04 12:04:27 <Tavmjong> Are they worried about overloading their systems?Nov 04 12:04:38 <brynn> bryce or doctormon could explain the details about the server setup they mentioned - I don't really understand much about itNov 04 12:06:15 <doctormon> brynn: Which person was those details from and what date is the email?Nov 04 12:06:25 <bryce> brynn, do you know when Courtney will be delivering the data files? I imagine that is the main blocker right now...Nov 04 12:07:07 <brynn> looking for the message - I'm ready to send Courtney a reminder. yes, that is the next big thingNov 04 12:07:14 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Pretty much, we're asking for another machine. Although the majority of the load will come from media. :-/ we don't have another Fastly cache to help with that either.Nov 04 12:07:47 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Do we need to offer to pay for the machine?Nov 04 12:08:16 <brynn> 10-11-16 from Justin DuggerNov 04 12:09:00 <doctormon> brynn: 2016-10-11?Nov 04 12:09:09 <brynn> yesNov 04 12:09:24 <bryce> I figure worst case we can arrange our own hosting provisioning elsewhere, though that would require some ongoing monthly costs and potentially more administrative attention on our endNov 04 12:09:51 <brynn> There are a couple of other possiblities for gratis hosting, which have not been explored yetNov 04 12:10:11 <brynn> tux family and I'll have to look up the other oneNov 04 12:10:18 <doctormon> OK soNov 04 12:10:52 <doctormon> OSUOSL are in a bit of transition, they want to move to a more managed setup, where apps can be plug and play.Nov 04 12:10:57 <bryce> fwiw I don't appear to have the 2016-10-11 emailNov 04 12:11:39 <bryce> doctormon, is the lack of a Fastly cache for media an issue we need to address?Nov 04 12:12:14 <doctormon> But out systems are not just legacy, all over the place and special**, but also we want more ;-) so they'd prefer to transition us. Start off with a Chef VM instance for the forum, unknown CPU, unknown memory, based of existing stats for existing forum.Nov 04 12:12:43 <brynn> bryce, I just forwarded to you. Sorry, I thought you were Cc'dNov 04 12:12:50 <doctormon> bryce: Not having it won't hurt the website, but OSUOSL might have to provision a larger machine for the forum than otherwise.Nov 04 12:13:53 <bryce> brynn, thanksNov 04 12:14:03 <bryce> ok, any action items for forum we need to track?Nov 04 12:14:46 <bryce> if not, let's move on to an SVG 2 update from TavNov 04 12:14:50 <doctormon> As the website administrator; I'm concerned that pushing OSUOSL will cause them to push back and ask us to move the website to one of these newer app based VMs, it's scares the living nighmare out of me because it took years to adaminster the website into a non-snail speed and I doubt any app service would be at the same level. So I saw it as rockiNov 04 12:14:50 <doctormon> ng the boat a bit.Nov 04 12:15:02 <brynn> bryce, you mentioned potential mentoring on installing the f orumNov 04 12:15:18 <bryce> brynn, ah right, I need to do that still.Nov 04 12:15:48 <Tavmjong> ============== SVG 2 Status =============Nov 04 12:16:11 <Tavmjong> I've prepared a summary for the status of SVG 2: http://tavmjong.free.fr/svg2_status.htmlNov 04 12:16:23 <brynn> could I make another comment on the forum/server issue?Nov 04 12:16:32 <bryce> brynn, go ahead pleaseNov 04 12:17:10 <brynn> I just wanted to ask, if it's going to be a big problem for osuosl, it probably would be the end of the world, if the forum wasn't hosted in the same place as the websiteNov 04 12:18:02 <brynn> I trust what doctormon is saying about those p otential problems - don't think he's exaggeratingNov 04 12:18:17 <bryce> brynn, certainly. There is an administrative simplification to having services together in one place, which is the only concern I have really.Nov 04 12:18:38 <brynn> oops, that was "would not be the end of the world"Nov 04 12:19:17 <brynn> yes, I understand it's better to have all togetherNov 04 12:19:30 <bryce> but I've expected we might eventually outgrow OSUOSL, and if they're pushing us to something we're not 100% certain is going to meet our needs going forward, that could possibly be a signal we need to start looking where we need to be down the road a bitNov 04 12:20:16 <doctormon> Administrative burden is the key there I think. Perhaps for OSUOSL too.Nov 04 12:20:18 <bryce> however, I would like to avoid piecemealing infrastructure; if we outgrow OSUOSL I'd want to perhaps look at arranging something more fully under our own managementNov 04 12:20:46 <brynn> I was thinking that too, although with much less well informed infoNov 04 12:20:50 <doctormon> (they're also not responding to requests for a mailman3 service)Nov 04 12:23:11 <bryce> hmm, well it can't hurt to at least sketch out some ideas of assembling an alternative hosting solution, but let's make that an agenda item for next month. Meantime, collect ideas. :-)Nov 04 12:23:12 <doctormon> Should we move onto SVG 2?Nov 04 12:23:18 <bryce> Tav, please proceed, sorry for the delay.Nov 04 12:23:43 <brynn> collecting ideas.... ThanksNov 04 12:24:04 <Tavmjong> A quick summary is that SVG 2 is in trouble. It almost got shut down completely last month. It is limping along at the moment. The things most interesting to Inkscape are the most threatened.Nov 04 12:24:43 <Tavmjong> One thing that is important is to demonstrate that there is interest in the new features. This can be done by generating lots of content using the new features.Nov 04 12:26:18 <Tavmjong> One thing we can do is to ship 0.92 with mesh gradients enabled. I've spent a bit of time in the last couple of weeks improving the GUI. I've fixed the undo bugs which was the most serious problem.Nov 04 12:26:46 <prkos> how much content? Where should the content be published to matter? Can we encourage it for About screen contest if the tools exist already?Nov 04 12:27:32 <bryce> sounds like going back to the days when we were clamoring for browsers to support SVG at allNov 04 12:27:32 <rindolf> Tavmjong: ah, why is there trouble in the SVG 2 standardisation process?Nov 04 12:27:40 <Tavmjong> Anywhere where, for example, Chrome's use counters pick it up.Nov 04 12:28:35 <Tavmjong> Mostly lack of interest by the browser vendors. SVG 2 has taken a long time to mature which has dampened interest.Nov 04 12:28:58 <doctormon> I'd vote +1 on mesh gradients being enabled.Nov 04 12:29:24 <Tavmjong> There is "newer, more exciting" stuff coming out (Houdini).Nov 04 12:29:25 <brynn> wouldn't that be a nice surprise!Nov 04 12:29:40 <doctormon> prkos: We can encourage content on inkscape.org with contests, even a gradient mesh special contest. Maybe some t-shirt rewards :-)Nov 04 12:30:08 <brynn> speaking of t-shirts - t-shirt design contest....Nov 04 12:30:14 <prkos> doctormon: yes that would be exciting :)Nov 04 12:30:19 <Tavmjong> A contest would be a good idea. I would love to see what people can do with it.Nov 04 12:30:39 <Lazur> I'd say that would target the professionals moreNov 04 12:30:40 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Would it be helpful if the website detected the browser in use, detected the use of mesh or other features in an uploaded svg and gave a warning + link to complain?Nov 04 12:30:58 <Tavmjong> And having cool examples would help.Nov 04 12:30:58 <Lazur> and that they would more appreciate a cmyk save feature with svg-sNov 04 12:31:23 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Probably if done carefully.Nov 04 12:31:30 <doctormon> After a contest :-DNov 04 12:31:32 <Lazur> for new comers the spray tool's new feature is a real eye candy on picking the coloursNov 04 12:31:33 <bryce> Tavmjong, I recall adding the WITH_MESH support to cmake as part of the 'disable unstable features' taskNov 04 12:32:03 <bryce> Tavmjong, so I hesitate with a +1 in that I'm worried there might be instability concerns enabling it this late in the release?Nov 04 12:32:22 <bryce> Tavmjong, or was it disabled due to SVG 2 not being out yet?Nov 04 12:32:47 <doctormon> Not out and I bet concerns over changing specNov 04 12:33:15 <Tavmjong> bryce: Mostly SVG 2 not being out but also due to the undo bugs (which are now fixed).Nov 04 12:33:36 <bryce> I don't know how others feel about having features that potentially conflict with the spec, but given that the SVG 2 process is in question it seems to me less a concernNov 04 12:34:08 <su_v> at the time the report was filed, it was mostly stability concerns, and future changes in the spec (the report asked for a discussion whether or not to disable the GUI for the tool - the feature itself for rendering is enabled anyway)Nov 04 12:34:40 <bryce> if svg 2 gets canceled, then obviously we'll be on our own anywayNov 04 12:35:14 <su_v> he configure option itself just hides the tool in the toolbox, and the button in Fill&StrokeNov 04 12:35:23 <bryce> su_v, right. Are the stability concerns resolved to your satisfaction? Do we need further testing first?Nov 04 12:35:54 <su_v> bryce: I have not tested it lately in 0.92pre2Nov 04 12:36:10 <bryce> hmmNov 04 12:36:25 <bryce> so maybe what we should do is re-enable it now, and push the release date out a bit to give more testing timeNov 04 12:36:29 <su_v> copy&paste as well as duplicate support I'd consider an essential though (last time I checked it was missing)Nov 04 12:36:45 <Tavmjong> Can people give the mesh gradient tool a workout in trunk this week? (Some things have not yet been backported to 0.92 yet as it would break string freeze.)Nov 04 12:37:26 <bryce> I can then roll a pre3 after it's turned on by default, and y'all can do gradient mesh contests and if problems crop up we still have a chance to disable before the releaseNov 04 12:38:01 <su_v> bryce: it can be tested with 0.92pre2 already - users simply have to define a custom shortcut for the tool in the preferencesNov 04 12:38:05 <Ede_123> We shouldn't reproduce the flowed text debacle with mesh gradients... In my opinion the lack of support in other rendering software damaged the project more than a lack of flowing text support would have...Nov 04 12:38:09 <su_v> and use the shortcut to activate the mesh tool.Nov 04 12:38:50 <prkos> can I have the new nightly installed in a separate folder? I don't want to run over the 0.92Nov 04 12:39:12 <tedg> Sorry I'm late.Nov 04 12:39:19 * tedg reads backlogNov 04 12:39:21 <bryce> Tavmjong, has it been your experience that the SVG WG or W3C gives weight to Inkscape as a significant SVG implementor?Nov 04 12:40:07 <Tavmjong> Definitely by the SVG WG. The W3C is more of a mixed bag.Nov 04 12:40:14 <doctormon> Tavmjong: Do we set the svg version to 2.0 when using these features? in the svg tag?Nov 04 12:40:43 <Tavmjong> doctormon: We could... but the SVG version tag has been removed (!!!!).Nov 04 12:40:58 * doctormon slaps head in comic doh fashionNov 04 12:41:15 <bryce> Ede_123, that is a fair pointNov 04 12:41:33 <Tavmjong> Actually, we probably should set the version flag for our own use.Nov 04 12:41:41 <rindolf> Tavmjong: isn't it an attribute?Nov 04 12:41:56 <Tavmjong> rindolf: Yes, it's an attribute.Nov 04 12:41:57 <doctormon> The difference I think is that we don't tell users our text is broken, we didn't do a good job falling back and the resulting render on others was a messNov 04 12:41:57 <bryce> prkos, not sure what OS you're on but afaik there's always some way to run in parallelNov 04 12:42:15 <prkos> bryce: ubuntuNov 04 12:42:44 <bryce> prkos, yes if you build it via cmake you can install to /usr/local (it should do so by default)Nov 04 12:42:51 <prkos> I remember doing it years ago, compiling in a separate folder, but I had a cheat sheet of commandsNov 04 12:43:14 <bryce> prkos, also see the README, I jotted some directions for configuring install target there iircNov 04 12:43:27 <prkos> ty I willNov 04 12:43:32 <bryce> ok, so action items on SVG 2 life support missionNov 04 12:43:35 <Tavmjong> Yes, we need to make it more apparent that meshes have limited support outside of Inkscape.Nov 04 12:43:58 <rindolf> prkos: -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=...Nov 04 12:44:07 <Tavmjong> I need to finish with the GUI changes for meshes. And I will respond to any bug reports ASAP.Nov 04 12:44:16 <tedg> Can we have a feature flag? "enable cool stuff" with a warning about portability?Nov 04 12:44:26 <prkos> rindolf: ty!Nov 04 12:44:37 <Tavmjong> Mostly what is left is saner handling of mesh in the Fill and Stroke dialog. That is almost ready.Nov 04 12:44:43 <doctormon> Tavmjong: And everything else. Using paint order for example is weird in that we support it, as do several browsers, but not svg 1.1 unlike whatour svg tag says.Nov 04 12:44:47 <bryce> Tavmjong, how much time will you need? And do you want that landed in a 0.92pre3, or just trunk for now?Nov 04 12:45:06 <bryce> tedg, there's already a WITH_MESH cmake feature flagNov 04 12:45:13 <Tavmjong> Give me a week to get it into 0.92Nov 04 12:45:22 <rindolf> prkos: you're welcome .Nov 04 12:45:26 <tedg> bryce: I was thinking runtimeNov 04 12:45:34 <tedg> Most users probably aren't compiling it.Nov 04 12:46:24 <bryce> tedg, yet another preferences option ;-)Nov 04 12:47:25 <bryce> honestly this is more like a file format compatibility issue than just a user tweakable knobNov 04 12:48:04 <bryce> perhaps the right way to solve it would be to register it as a different file type (SVG 2 Experimental or somesuch)Nov 04 12:48:14 <tedg> Yes, I see that. I guess I'm more worried how to we get people to use it, but yet understand the risks of compatibility if they do.Nov 04 12:49:16 <bryce> but none of that's really doable in the 0.92 timeframe, and evidently by 0.93 we should know the prognosis for SVG2Nov 04 12:49:18 <doctormon> Default should be inkscape svg. We can create a SVG for the Web option perhaps, make it more obvious that we'll clean and warn for the web that way.Nov 04 12:49:57 <bryce> ok, so action item for Tav is to get the GUI bits done and landed in 0.92, then I'll roll a 0.92pre3 with it.Nov 04 12:50:08 <bryce> any other action items for svg2?Nov 04 12:50:13 <Tavmjong> Will do.Nov 04 12:50:19 <Tavmjong> Not at the moment.Nov 04 12:50:21 <tedg> Yeah, Tavmjong could we just inkscape: prefix it all. And then "save as svg2" which would change the namespace on save?Nov 04 12:50:36 <doctormon> I'm going to take a look at warning/cleaning for "plain svg", maybe it's easy enough to warn the user.Nov 04 12:51:07 <doctormon> Add as action item bryceNov 04 12:51:15 <bryce> doctormon, got itNov 04 12:51:22 <bryce> ok, if there's nothing else, moving on...Nov 04 12:51:30 <Tavmjong> doctormon: Warning of saving would be a good idea.Nov 04 12:51:45 <Tavmjong> Next topic?Nov 04 12:51:53 <brynn> see you guys, and thanks :)Nov 04 12:51:58 <bryce> ============== Merchandise Sales ==============Nov 04 12:52:11 <doctormon> thanks brynn! have a good weekendNov 04 12:52:17 <bryce> SFC has set up a Spreadshirt account for us to useNov 04 12:52:36 <bryce> I am still waiting on getting actual login credential access, but will reping on that.Nov 04 12:52:58 <tedg> bryce: That's cool, thanks for getting that setup.Nov 04 12:53:08 <bryce> I don't think I'll have time to actually do the store setup and administrative work. I might poke at it a bit, but would better trust someone else to focus on itNov 04 12:53:08 * tedg hugs bryceNov 04 12:53:42 <bryce> Mc had proposed the idea originally, so I'm hopeful he is still interested/willing/available to take charge on itNov 04 12:53:42 <doctormon> Nothing in the credentials repository, bryce I'd love to see the interface for spreadshirtNov 04 12:54:05 <bryce> but for redundancy I'd also like a second volunteerNov 04 12:54:24 <doctormon> I'll jump in, since I'm very interested in it.Nov 04 12:54:44 <bryce> doctormon, this is another service that is going to be per-person credentials rather than a shared account we can put in the credentials repoNov 04 12:55:06 <doctormon> bryce: Great, what's the first step in getting an account?Nov 04 12:55:13 <bryce> doctormon, you've just completed it :-)Nov 04 12:55:27 <bryce> doctormon, I'll forward your name and email to SFC so they can set you up as well as meNov 04 12:56:12 <bryce> if Mc is not interested we'll need to find another volunteer. I think 2 people + me as backup should be adequateNov 04 12:56:38 <bryce> we had discussed starting with using the Inkscape logo on a few articles/itemsNov 04 12:57:26 <bryce> doctormon, btw you can register a dummy account there if you want to poke around at the interface, it's pretty slick. But the banking info has to be there before you can actually set stuff up for real.Nov 04 12:58:14 <prkos> I'd love to help out but I'm not up to speed about what the expectations areNov 04 12:58:52 <tedg> I think logo shirts are a really good first step, but I think it is something we can grow.Nov 04 12:59:15 <bryce> prkos, I think this is new territory for pretty much all of usNov 04 12:59:44 <bryce> so doing some shirts with the logo would be a simple first step, and I don't think should be hardNov 04 13:00:01 <prkos> I guess I can help with anything except programming so CMI if you need meNov 04 13:00:06 <bryce> there'll be some tasks to do for promoting it -- adding news items on our website, putting out the word, etc.Nov 04 13:00:25 <doctormon> bryce: So far I'm stuck on uploading an avatar, only jpegs, only 120x120 or more, unknown error come back later.Nov 04 13:00:30 <prkos> I can do articles, marketing etcNov 04 13:00:52 <bryce> prkos, great! thanksNov 04 13:01:13 <bryce> prkos, no programming necessary on this I believeNov 04 13:01:14 <doctormon> prkos: Happy to work with you, can you send me an email?Nov 04 13:01:58 <fguimont> I'd like to see badges you can sow on a bag or coat.Nov 04 13:02:16 <bryce> there's been a ton of ideas for phase 2, everything from contests to the past about screens to even hired artworkNov 04 13:02:55 <bryce> so as you get up the learning curve on this, you guys should brainstorm on direction forward thereNov 04 13:03:38 <bryce> there's obviously going to be some consideration needed to be given to usage rights and so on, we certainly want to make sure we use art respectfullyNov 04 13:03:45 <doctormon> Wow so many problems with the spreadshirt website, I think it might actually hate me. ;-) will keep tryingNov 04 13:04:03 <bryce> at the same time I expect purchasers of our wares are going to have high expectations for artistic quality ;-)Nov 04 13:04:13 <Tavmjong> I don't get past "Your design is being checked."Nov 04 13:06:11 <doctormon> I cnNov 04 13:06:16 <doctormon> t even set my real name ;-)Nov 04 13:06:21 <bryce> doctormon, prkos ok so next action for me will be to request admin access for you two to the account (unless prkos you want to *just* focus on promotion and not on admin)Nov 04 13:06:38 <doctormon> I'd like prkos to have admin, even if not focusedNov 04 13:06:51 <bryce> Tavmjong, doctormon :-/ it seemed to work ok for me back when I tried it, although I didn't test uploading actual designsNov 04 13:06:52 <prkos> happy to help, CMINov 04 13:07:01 <bryce> prkos, doctormon greatNov 04 13:07:32 <bryce> ok, so guess your action item will be to have fun and experiment a bit :-)Nov 04 13:07:34 <Tavmjong> I just got a simple rectangle/circle design to upload. Kind of neat that you can change the colors in the design after uploading.Nov 04 13:07:59 <bryce> alright, we'll revisit this next meeting.Nov 04 13:08:05 <bryce> I'd like to squeeze in one more quick topicNov 04 13:08:24 <bryce> ============== Sponsorship level followup ==============Nov 04 13:08:53 <bryce> this has been percolating on our todo list for months, but I think we're pretty close to being able to get it wrapped upNov 04 13:09:03 <bryce> https://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/34460338/Nov 04 13:09:25 <bryce> I think the final step here is just that we need to fold in mention of the five levels we decided on for the web pageNov 04 13:10:22 <bryce> doctormon since that vote preceded your joining the board, I'd first like to get your thoughtsNov 04 13:11:30 <doctormon> We don't have a tracking mechanism/policy, so one year isn't something we';re going to be notified about.Nov 04 13:12:29 <bryce> doctormon, perhaps we could track it as part of the board action items for now?Nov 04 13:12:43 <bryce> to date we've had only one donation above $1000 and that was some years agoNov 04 13:13:07 <tedg> Seems like something as simple as a shared google spreadsheet would work.Nov 04 13:13:39 <bryce> ScislaC had mentioned a potential $5,000 donation but I guess it never materialized.Nov 04 13:14:27 <bryce> tedg, no, it's not a matter of data recording, it's a matter of remembering down the roadNov 04 13:14:37 <doctormon> bryce: We can keep it in the action items for now then.Nov 04 13:15:13 <bryce> ok, works for me. We can just track it in the wiki with the agendaNov 04 13:16:49 <bryce> I don't anticipate we're going to see an influx of donations at these levels, but you never know. And if we do we'll want this info on the site. Who knows maybe having it out there will generate some donor interest.Nov 04 13:17:30 <bryce> I don't think we want to literally cut and paste the text from the referendum though; it should be wordsmithed to be more presentable for donorsNov 04 13:17:41 <doctormon> I agreeNov 04 13:18:04 <bryce> doctormon, do you think this is something maren would be interested in working on designing? Or are there other web editors with good layout skills we could ask?Nov 04 13:18:19 <tedg> I think having the levels is good. It makes people feel like they have something to go for, and target. Instead of some random "donate something"Nov 04 13:18:45 <bryce> tedg, yeah and I especially like the names for the levelsNov 04 13:18:46 <doctormon> bryce: There are designers, Sylvain maybe, me perhaps. Depends on what and how fast.Nov 04 13:19:17 <doctormon> Do we have the website page explaining the levels with cute icons and example screenshots?Nov 04 13:19:24 <bryce> doctormon, there isn't anything driving an urgency to this other than that it's on our todo listNov 04 13:19:57 <prkos> could we maybe get some descriptions from developers for each price tag, something inspiring about what a particular amount would do when applied to real problems being solved?Nov 04 13:20:16 <bryce> doctormon, creating that would be the next step. The levels definitely do suggest cute icons :-)Nov 04 13:21:15 <bryce> prkos, sure if that's something the web designer thinks would add to the page we can brainstorm somethingNov 04 13:21:42 <prkos> like: one week of bug cracking frenzy by two mad scientists...Nov 04 13:21:53 <bryce> right now, the largest chunks of our cash go to hackfests and svg wg's and we have advocacy pages on the site for both of those, that could be linked toNov 04 13:22:24 <bryce> prkos, that'd be awesome but we're not quite to that level yet ;-)Nov 04 13:22:47 <prkos> :-$Nov 04 13:23:10 <doctormon> We can save that one for the $100,000 levelNov 04 13:23:27 <bryce> doctormon, ok can you take the action item to find someone interested in working on scoping this out? You can have them pepper me with questions if they need direction.Nov 04 13:24:34 <bryce> prkos, actually hold that thought for next meeting; it fits with the funded development agenda item that we're going to have to postpone from this meeting...Nov 04 13:24:53 <bryce> alright, I think that covers sponsorship level stuff for nowNov 04 13:24:58 <bryce> any other business?Nov 04 13:25:13 <prkos> got itNov 04 13:27:17 <bryce> alright, guess that's a wrapNov 04 13:27:19 <bryce> thanks all!Nov 04 13:27:31 <bryce> ============== EOM ==============Nov 04 13:27:32 <Tavmjong> Good night all!Nov 04 13:27:40 <prkos> thank you! nite!Nov 04 13:27:50 <tedg> 'night folks!Nov 04 13:28:13 <fguimont> good night.Nov 04 13:28:40 <rindolf> night.
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