21:00 < Tavmjong> ************ Inkscape Board Meeting *************21:00 < Tavmjong> Who is here?21:00 < doctormon> Me21:01 < Tavmjong> bryce will not be unfortunately.21:01 * tedg raises hand21:01 < Tavmjong> tedg?21:01 < doctormon> CRogers_________, Mc, ?21:01 < Mc> yep21:01 -!- CRogers_________ is now known as CRogers21:02 < Tavmjong> Agenda: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings#Agenda21:02 < CRogers> doctormon: It was just a dream, don't worry, go back to sleep.21:02 < CRogers> Oh, there was a meeting planned wasn't there?21:03 < prkos> here21:03 < Tavmjong> josh? kk? jon?21:03 -!- tweenk [tweenk@nat/google/x-ivounvickhbcaruh] has joined #inkscape-devel21:03 < Tavmjong> tweenk!21:03 < tweenk> Hello :)21:04 < Tavmjong> OK, so we have four out of seven board members...21:04 < CRogers> Hey folks.21:04 < Tavmjong> Do we want to discuss Portland without bryce? (i.e. what did we learn?)21:05 < doctormon> CRogers: that's now21:05 < CRogers> doctormon: yea, just saw previous message.21:05 < CRogers> Good to be here. :D21:05 < Tavmjong> I think the main thing we learned is that we have a small active developer pool and getting them together is hard.21:05 < doctormon> Tavmjong: we learned to be very careful when booking a place. I think phone calls are probably better.21:06 < Tavmjong> doctormon: That too!21:06 < tweenk> Agreed21:06 < doctormon> Tavmjong: also, attendance is going to be based on proximity. It's easier for me to get to Paris or SanFran than for you to get to SanFran for example.21:06 < CRogers> Does anyone know what the attendee count required for Paris is?21:06 < Tavmjong> So far eight people have expressed an interest:21:07 < Tavmjong> http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2017Fall_Attendees21:07 < Tavmjong> (Ignore the "Fall")21:07 < CRogers> Hotels are easy, there are two budget ones close by the facility.21:07 < CRogers> (for Paris)21:07 < tedg> I wonder if it's just easier to get Europeans together (more vacation, etc.) than Americans.21:07 < Tavmjong> I checked, there are also good options for AirBnB (certainly above Leeds' level).21:07 < CRogers> Yes, that factors highly into it for me.21:08 < tedg> Also, I'm curious if any Europeans were turned off by the US travel stories... not sure how we'd know really.21:08 < doctormon> maybe, maybe I'm too European to be counted as American :-P21:08 < CRogers> doctormon: I wonder the opposite. :)21:08 < Tavmjong> I think Portland is mostly a two leg flight from Europe.. so about 15 hours.21:08 < tedg> doctormon: You have a sweater for your tea pot... ;-)21:08 < doctormon> My request is pretty high demand (I know) but I'd like the hotel, airbnb, or whatever, to be sorted out by someone other than me.21:09 < CRogers> still talking about portland?21:09 < Tavmjong> doctormon: At worst, you can stay with me (but it's a 1.5h commute to the proposed venue).21:09 < CRogers> Or Paris?21:09 < Mc> CRogers: Paris21:09 < CRogers> I'll be happy to help with paris.21:09 < doctormon> Tavmjong: Having the organiser 1.5 hours away from the venue does make things harder. Wouldyou be willing to book a hotel for yourself somewhere closer?21:10 < Tavmjong> I could do that for part of the time...21:10 < Tavmjong> (It also makes socializing easier)21:10 < Tavmjong> tweenk: Can you make Paris?21:11 < CRogers> recommend this place: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/H%C3%B4tel+Forest+Hill+Paris+-+La+Villette/@48.8955748,2.3858411,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xefc3e829de04212d!8m2!3d48.8971743!4d2.385463521:11 < CRogers> it's like right out the front door.21:11 < tweenk> Tavmjong: not on these dates, unfortunately... my family is coming on June 121:11 < CRogers> of the science center.21:12 < CRogers> and is cheap (relatively) and is rated 4 stars. Most in this price are rated 2 lol21:13 < Tavmjong> I've sent personal email to a handful of people who have made recent commits and have received negative replies from most. The only person not yet to respond is Alex.21:13 < CRogers> If we moved the date, would more prople be interested?21:13 < doctormon> CRogers: you offering to book the occomodation for everyone? :-D21:13 < Tavmjong> So the first question is, given the current people who have expressed interest, is it a sufficiently large group to proceed?21:14 < CRogers> Sure, if there's enough interest. :)21:14 < Tavmjong> tedg: What are your thoughts?21:15 < CRogers> Paris is not that far away, I could probably go there for a weekend before and check otu the accomodations.21:15 < tedg> It seems like enough to me. I guess we'd probably be targetting 5-6, half will drop and we'll probably get two late comers.21:15 < tedg> So 8 early commits seems reasonable.21:16 < Tavmjong> tweenk: ?21:17 < Tavmjong> We might pick up some people from the host site since they are active users of Inkscape.21:17 < CRogers> If I'm booking hotels, drop outs will still may need to pay for rooms, obviously. :)21:17 < tweenk> If there will be local participants, then I think 8 people should be enough.21:17 < fguimont_> ok, just got news. I won't be going to Paris :(21:17 < CRogers> booo21:17 < fguimont_> just got fired :/21:18 < Mc> :/21:18 < CRogers> ah, shit. :(21:18 < fguimont_> economic reasons.21:18 < tweenk> that's terrible :(21:18 < Tavmjong> Sorry about that...21:18 < fguimont_> yeah, bummer21:18 < fguimont_> I'll still come by the channel, but won'd have funds to travel.21:18 < CRogers> fguimont_: where are you located?21:18 < fguimont_> in Quebec city Canada21:19 * CRogers nods21:19 < fguimont_> you know anybody who is hiring an SVG expert? ;)21:19 < Tavmjong> SVG is dead... better learn about Houdini.21:20 < Mc> ?21:20 < fguimont_> Oh well, I go herd sheep in new zealand then :P21:20 < Tavmjong> Houdini is an attempt to give website developers low level access inside browsers. It's the hottest thing about the browser set.21:20 < CRogers> Closer to Paris. :)21:21 < Tavmjong> Hey, they have sheep here!21:21 < tweenk> Tavmjong: been watching the MongoDB video recently? ;)21:21 < Tavmjong> tweenk: ? no21:21 < tweenk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs21:22 < CRogers> tweenk, how long is your family keeping you?21:22 < tedg> Huh, interesting.21:22 < tweenk> CRogers: pretty long, they are leaving on June 2321:22 < tedg> Might just give people Vulkan instructions in the browser. What could go wrong? :-)21:23 < CRogers> tedg: hehehe21:23 < CRogers> tweenk: okay21:23 < tweenk> tedg: sounds a lot like WebGL-Next21:24 < CRogers> Well everyone who shows up whether by live stream or in-person, I can also provide hackfest souvineers.21:24 < Tavmjong> One problem in moving the date is that availability of the site is limited.21:24 < CRogers> I have some ideas, and have access to the engraver at my work.21:25 * CRogers nods about the date.21:25 < Tavmjong> ... and it seems like an ideal place.21:25 < CRogers> seems like there isn't much wiggle room anyway fot tweenk21:25 < Mc> we can ask if there is more availibility later21:25 < CRogers> Yea, really cool venue.21:25 < Mc> earlier is hard, but later might be possible21:25 < CRogers> Need you all in Amsterdam too.21:26 < CRogers> Great hotels for next to nothin.21:26 < Tavmjong> Mc: Maybe possible in late June?21:26 < CRogers> And the canals are a great group photo op. :D21:26 < Mc> I can ask21:26 < Tavmjong> July/August get into vacation time in France.21:27 < tedg> I think the site seems really great, and we do have 8 people interested... so I think we can over think it.21:27 < Tavmjong> Mc: How soon do you need to get back about the end of May dates?21:28 < Tavmjong> tedg: Yeah, that true.21:28 < Mc> they pre-booked it for us already21:28 < doctormon> Tavmjong: Houdini sounds like canvas, not exactly a file format.21:29 < Mc> so it's just a matter of saying "if it's possible at this other time, it might be better, otherwise thanks :)"21:29 < tedg> My thoughts are if there is a great date in the Fall, I think we might get more interest just because people can plan. But I'd be 100% behind these date, and think we should move forward on them even if it is a smaller hackfest.21:30 < Tavmjong> OK, can I propose a straw vote for holding a hackfest in Paris at the end of May as proposed or at the end of June depending on Mc inquiry?21:30 < Tavmjong> (Real vote done by email)21:30 < tedg> +121:30 < doctormon> +121:30 < tweenk> Sounds good21:30 < Tavmjong> +121:30 < CRogers> Yep.21:31 < tweenk> I don't think there is a date that would work for absolutely everyone, it's always a compromise :)21:31 < Tavmjong> OK, I'll put together a vote to send to bryce.21:31 < CRogers> I'll wait on booking the hotel, but the more in advance we book, usually the better the deals.21:31 < Mc> are we sure there would be more people at the end of june ?21:32 < Tavmjong> tweenk?21:32 < doctormon> CRogers: agreed.21:32 < doctormon> It pretty much is a matter of is bryce, tweenk and other people who are key for gtk3 and the other bits we want to do.21:32 < tedg> Mc: Not sure, but 6wks out is short for some folks.21:33 < doctormon> Did bryce say he wasn't able to come at any time?21:33 < doctormon> tedg: What about yourself?21:33 < tedg> doctormon: I'm not sure where I'll be working at that point right now... so I'm not willing to commit to anything right now. I'd sure like to though, looks like an awesome location.21:34 < Tavmjong> Mc: I'm not sure but I can ping the people who have already expressed interest. I can do this over the weekend and have an answer by Monday.21:34 < Mc> ok21:34 < CRogers> You got me any time you like, barring catastrophe.21:34 < tweenk> Tavmjong: I could come at the end of June.21:35 < Tavmjong> OK, anything else about the hackfest?21:35 < doctormon> tedg: You changing jobs too?21:36 < tedg> doctormon: Well, project canceled. I imagine I'll get laid off next week. Nothing official yet.21:36 < doctormon> ah21:36 < Tavmjong> Another ouch!21:36 < tedg> doctormon: So "probably"21:36 < doctormon> tedg: This was the Canonical reshuffle?21:37 < tedg> doctormon: Well, "reshuffle" -- axing of the tablet/phone/desktop team :-)21:37 < doctormon> Aye21:37 < doctormon> Sorry to hear about that21:37 < CRogers> Yea, a friend of mine who works there said they are ditching mobile.21:37 < CRogers> and Unity.21:37 < CRogers> Apparently over concerns about Mir.21:37 < Tavmjong> It was in the news a couple of days ago....21:38 < tedg> Heh, no. Not concerns over Mir. Just that the whole thing wasn't profitable for the size of investment. Cleaning house.21:38 < doctormon> CRogers: Ditching Unity in favour on unity.21:38 < CRogers> She worked in the mobile division and said it was a bit of a relief. ;P21:38 < Tavmjong> OK for hackfest, next topic...21:38 < Mc> I'm sending an email asking for 25-30 june +- 1week ?21:38 < Tavmjong> Mc: Sounds good.21:39 < CRogers> that's good for me.21:39 -!- Reptorian [~chatzilla@c-50-143-70-230.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #inkscape-devel21:39 < Mc> Tavmjong: I'm ccing you (the email thread is in french)21:39 < Reptorian> did i miss the meeting?21:39 < Mc> only the first item (paris hackfest)21:39 < Tavmjong> Anything else we should talk about.. Mc: Merchandise sales?21:40 < Tavmjong> Mc: OK, I can read a bit of French...21:40 < tweenk> tedg: I heard about that, sad to hear. It's a shame because I still like Unity the most.21:40 < doctormon> Tavmjong: Mechandise would be me right?21:40 < CRogers> Oh, I can get 100 inflatable inkscape CCOC bats for a pound each.21:40 < Tavmjong> doctormon: You, bryce, and Mc21:41 < Tavmjong> CRogers: Baseball or cricket?21:41 < Mc> I have no idea how much this topic progressed recently, I think I missed one of the relevant meetings21:41 < CRogers> Tavmjong: Baseball. :)21:41 < Reptorian> who even play cricket? no offense to anybody here21:41 < Mc> britons21:42 < tweenk> tedg: On the other hand, even Google has some problems running Linux on a phone... Mobile is hard21:42 < Reptorian> i guess so, us american guys don't even know of cricket21:42 < Tavmjong> Aussies, South Asians, West Indies...21:42 < CRogers> i knew about it from Hitchhiker's guide.21:42 < CRogers> Then I moved to London, and laughed again. :D21:42 < Reptorian> i never managed to get linux under a phone21:42 < tedg> tweenk: Yeah, I liked it too. But eh, it is hard and expensive to develop.21:43 < Reptorian> it would be nice to be able to run a desktop within a phone, but that'll take a while to happen21:43 < tweenk> Reptorian: the closest things right now are MS Continuum and Samsung Dex21:43 < CRogers> Reptorian: wasn't really close to that apparently.21:43 < Reptorian> but it is gimmicky though21:44 < Tavmjong> OK, back on topic... doctormon: do you have anything to add about merchandise sales?21:44 < tweenk> MS Continuum relies on the completely dead Windows Phone platform, so Samsung wins that race by default21:44 < doctormon> Yes21:44 < Tavmjong> Shoot...21:44 < tweenk> It's almost sad to watch, Windows Phone shipments dropped by like 75% in 201621:44 < doctormon> The person who was helping with merch viz the shop we were setting up has disappeared. probably busy.21:45 < prkos> don't forget the little old me in merch! I haven't had as much time as I wanted but it is progressing slowly, I'm half way done with the marketing suggestions21:45 < prkos> lurking might be a better description21:45 < rindolf> Tavmjong: I thought the board meeting was in 15 minutes from now - 23:00 Israeli time21:45 < doctormon> I asked around at LibrePlanet about merch. The best deal I could do was the stickers. Which since the conservancy already has production, we can just hitch a ride on that and get some nice stickers done.21:45 < CRogers> Tavmjong: here is an svg mockup of the Inkscape CCOC bat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9fla8jr5g9z58zj/inkscape_community_coc_inflatable_bat.svg?dl=021:46 < doctormon> The vote is in progress, I think tweenk is one of the people left to vote.21:46 < Mc> rindolf: summer time ?21:46 < tedg> doctormon: Did we talk to conservancy, is that going foward?21:46 < tedg> Ah, okay.21:46 < tweenk> CRogers: :D21:46 -!- fguimont_ [~fguimont@68.67.45.242] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]21:46 < CRogers> tweenk: I know, I want one too. ;)21:46 < doctormon> tedg: Yes, I'm wrapping up the vote and I'm going to CC bryce in an email to them laying out what we want.21:46 < Reptorian> inflatable bat, i'm not sold on the idea21:46 < Tavmjong> rindolf: That was a mistake by me in setting the date&time.com ... sorry.21:46 < CRogers> I have to order 100 of them though. lol21:46 < doctormon> They're already expecting our email, so the vote was just about the money.21:47 < rindolf> Tavmjong: ah. :-(21:47 < tedg> Cool, I think that was a great plan.21:47 < tweenk> CRogers: I'm not sure that's the right message though, COC is not something to use to beat people over the head with, it's more like lane markings21:47 < CRogers> I know, it's mostly a joke.21:47 < Reptorian> but that is a great render nonetheless21:47 < Mc> ^^21:47 < rindolf> Tavmjong: ok, apology accepted21:47 < tweenk> Ah, I didn't notice it was inflatable.21:47 < CRogers> yes21:47 < CRogers> that's essential to the joke. :)21:47 < CRogers> as is the halo on inkscape.21:48 < CRogers> which I stole from one of doctormon's graphics.21:48 < rindolf> bye all !Switching to my desktop machine'21:48 < Reptorian> that's a nice touch21:48 -!- rindolf [~shlomif@bzq-79-178-104-143.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]21:48 < Mc> anyway, for the "regular" merchandise, are there specific items to do?21:48 < Reptorian> clothes are part of the regular mechandise, right? i can see myself getting a inkscape shirt21:48 < CRogers> People need vis mockups for exiting items? That's like half of what I do at work lately. lol21:49 < CRogers> *existing21:49 < Mc> Reptorian: yes, that's what we're discussing :)21:49 < CRogers> So what is it that's needed?21:50 < doctormon> Reptorian: Yes21:51 < Reptorian> if i had the time, i would probably design a shirt with a inkscape logo that glows around, and some sort of convulated pattern all around21:51 < doctormon> So I think what we'll do wrt merch is slowly make a few things and sell them or give them depending. I'm going to handle some of the production myself since I'm pretty unhappy with spreadshirt.21:51 < Mc> handle it ?21:51 < doctormon> (by production I mean contacting people that make things)21:51 < Mc> ah, ok21:52 * CRogers envisioned doctormon's kids doing screen printing. ^.^21:52 < Tavmjong> doctormon: What about distribution then?21:52 < doctormon> I'll probably invest some monkey into it, no point in going halfs.21:52 < Mc> poor monkey21:52 < Tavmjong> Monkeys doing screening?21:52 < doctormon> Tavmjong: I'd have to handle that to start with, probably keep it small.21:52 -!- rindolf [~rindolf@bzq-79-178-104-143.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #inkscape-devel21:53 < doctormon> The case badge project was 300 orders, $9k turnover, $1.5k profit, 1 complaint.21:53 < CRogers> It's probably best to get simple things first.21:53 < doctormon> Although wow, that was 10 years ago now.21:53 < CRogers> I can provide good cheap screen printing graphics.21:53 < Mc> case badge project ?21:53 < CRogers> Like I do for work.21:54 < doctormon> Mc: Metal Ubuntu case badges pre-ordered by loco teams, some businesses and many inderviduals21:54 < doctormon> CRogers: I may confer with you :-)21:55 < doctormon> Tavmjong: Can I talk about the mailing list?21:55 < CRogers> doctormon: nodnods21:55 < Tavmjong> Yes, are we done with merchandising?21:56 < Reptorian> if we're done, what about that microsoft thing?21:56 < Tavmjong> Reptorian: Mailing lists first.21:56 < Tavmjong> doctormon: Shoot21:57 < doctormon> OK so I had a word with a bunch of people at Libre Planet about our mailing list situation.21:57 < doctormon> Everyone from the conservancy, the FSF and a few other groups.21:58 < doctormon> I have a plan for how we can get ourselves a brand spanking new mailman3 service which the conservancy will run for the benefit for us and other projects.21:58 < Tavmjong> Cool21:58 < doctormon> Offering the service to other projects is important as it allows us to offload the maintence going forwards.21:58 < tedg> That sounds great, love mailman 3 :-)21:59 < Mc> sounds good21:59 < doctormon> The conservancy is able to provide for us a rackspace machine for free for this purpose.21:59 < tedg> It has some forum-like features, right? Can we use those?21:59 < Mc> we don't need a whole machine just for mailing lists21:59 < doctormon> the inkscape project would hire a technical expert to install, configure and migrate inkscape mailing lists and provide a guarentee for one month.22:00 < doctormon> I have found a good persont od o this work for us. So we would essentially be paying to set up the system.22:00 < Tavmjong> Estimated cost?22:00 < doctormon> tedg: Yes, mailman3 provides forums, and I hope those solve our forum problems.22:00 < tweenk> doctormon: Awesome, 2 birds with 1 stone :)22:01 < Tavmjong> And how is long-term maintenance handled?22:01 < tedg> doctormon: There'd be some concern of migrating accounts and old data from the forums, would that even be possible here?22:01 < doctormon> Tavmjong: Ian Denhardt (zenhack) will do the work for $850 with a one month guarentee after the thing is fully up and working.22:02 < Mc> I would not be so confident that a mailman forum would handle the same features as a phpbb like the existing one22:02 < Tavmjong> That sounds reasonable.22:02 < doctormon> tedg: I have some personal scripts to migrate php forum code, but that would need to be a seperate step IMO.22:02 < Mc> (but i don't know much about mailman forums)22:02 < doctormon> My goal is to then sell other projects on the system in the conservancy. then we can have them take over maintenance going forward.22:03 < Tavmjong> Hmmm, this sounds like a bit of a gamble. How would they take over maintenance?22:03 < doctormon> Mc: It's a django based front end, intergrated email so forum people and mailing list people can read where they like and post where they like while occupying the same space.22:04 < Mc> ok22:04 < Tavmjong> (Note, I do think this is a great idea... just want to make sure it will work.)22:04 -!- rindolf [~rindolf@bzq-79-178-104-143.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]22:04 < Mc> we can try22:04 < doctormon> Tavmjong: That's more of a cost thing. If it's just us, then I'd probably do it or personally hire Ian back to fix an issue. But if more projects are using it, then sharing the cost would be ideal. That's the long term goal.22:05 < tweenk> It definitely sounds like a big improvement.22:05 < doctormon> Because it's money, we'll probably want to do a vote via email.22:06 < Tavmjong> Maybe we can have straw vote now...22:06 < Tavmjong> +122:06 < doctormon> abstain22:07 < tweenk> +122:07 -!- rindolf [~rindolf@bzq-79-178-104-143.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #inkscape-devel22:07 < Tavmjong> tedg ?22:08 < tedg> Sorry, got distracted.22:08 < tedg> I like it overall, but we'll need a dollar amount for the contract.22:08 < tweenk> It was $85022:08 < tedg> Sorry, missed that.22:08 < Tavmjong> So doctormon, you'll write up a vote proposal to send to bryce?22:09 < tedg> So I'm fine with the cost. I think we should try to get at least one or two other projects to say they'd use it.22:09 < tedg> I doubt that'll be hard, but it'd be nice to get their requirements in early.22:09 < tedg> Otherwise we build something they don't want.22:09 < Tavmjong> Good point...22:10 < Mc> are there other SFC projects using sourceforge for ml ?22:10 < Tavmjong> Before we start on Microsoft... I've got a couple of quick questions:22:10 < Tavmjong> tweenk: Did bryce contact you about the Inkscape git migration?22:10 < Tavmjong> doctormon: Are the new sponsorship levels on the website?22:10 < tweenk> Tavmjong: to be honest, I haven't been checking my e-mail recently...22:11 < tweenk> Tavmjong: I'll take a look22:11 < Tavmjong> doctormon: Have you looked at the GSoC website development proposals?22:11 < tedg> I was supposed to contact tweenk, and I didn't do it.22:12 < tedg> So we need to figure that out. But on the plus side, I expect to have some time to do it.22:12 < tweenk> tedg: You mean the Git migration?22:12 < tedg> So tweenk, I'd be mostly interested if you had any issues setting up the demos?22:13 < tedg> tweenk: Yeah, to Gitlab.22:13 < tweenk> tedg: Not really. I just pulled the most recent bzr revision, ran the cleanup script, then pushed to the Github repo22:13 < tweenk> Ah missed a step, I used git fast import to convert the bzr checkout22:14 < doctormon> Tavmjong: yes new sponsorship levels are on the website22:14 < Tavmjong> doctormon: Excellent.22:14 < Mc> I've got another topic about migration: it's now almost impossible to be a useful lp answers contact because of the thousand spams (the mailman forum might replace that); but now the spam also involves the bugs section of launchpad (so people in the bug team receive tenths of almost daily emails of spam bugs), do you think spam mitigation may be better on gitlab issues ?22:14 < doctormon> Tavmjong: I replied to the web dev proposal. Trying to make sure that happens.22:14 < tedg> tweenk: Okay, cool. I'll give it a try. su_v asked me to look into trying to connect the old repo as well, so we'd have a full history.22:14 < tweenk> the Bazaar tool for writing to Git repos doesn't work well, it's easier to do the opposite conversion (read the bzr repository from a git plugin)22:14 < Reptorian> quick question, how do i check if there's a latest version of uncompiled inkscape via msys2?22:14 < tedg> tweenk: I think we can do that with the fast import files.22:15 < Mc> (Reptorian: Ede_123 does not seem he's around, you may have a faster answer by email)22:15 < Tavmjong> doctormon: The GSoC proposals are final so we need to decide which to accept.22:16 < Reptorian> what's his e-mail?22:16 < Mc> inkscape-devel@22:16 < Mc> same as everyone :p22:16 < tedg> Who's leading GSoC this year? Josh?22:16 < Reptorian> i'll go send to inkscape-devel then22:16 < doctormon> We had a misunderstanding between bugs and blueprints, but I think we got that sorted out22:16 < Tavmjong> tedg: Josh with me as backup.22:17 < doctormon> tweenk: Is this for the inkscape repository conversion?22:17 < Tavmjong> We've got a few good proposals.... and lots of spam.22:17 < Mc> which candidates did submit patches ?22:17 < tweenk> doctormon: yes22:17 -!- caryoscelus [~caryoscel@176.195.205.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]22:17 < doctormon> tweenk: The bzr export should produce a textual file output which can then be fed into git import.22:18 < Tavmjong> Mc: Need to confirm the submitted patches.22:18 < doctormon> tweenk: Once I had my bzr output, I edited it manually to fix a couple of issues.22:18 < tweenk> doctormon: I found that using the git bzr import plugin, then git commit filter is actually the most reliable solution22:18 < doctormon> tweenk: Me too,22:18 < Mc> Tavmjong: will you be mentoring two students?22:19 < Tavmjong> Mc: To be decided. I see you are interested in mentoring one...22:19 < Reptorian> blueprint doesn't seem to be used recently22:19 < Reptorian> via launchpad22:20 < Tavmjong> Mc: That would be great...22:20 < Mc> Tavmjong: I never mentored before, and reckon that you are "the" expert (much more than I am) on the topic of the project ^^ so if you want to mentor him, it's ok for me22:21 < Tavmjong> Mc: Co-mentoring is permitted and I certainly could use help.22:21 < Mc> ok then22:22 < CRogers> So tav is mentoring mc... on mentoring.22:22 < Mc> yep :D22:22 < CRogers> just making sure. :)22:22 < Tavmjong> Mc is then in trouble.22:22 < CRogers> hehehe22:22 < Tavmjong> OK, it sounds like the git stuff is on its way to be worked out.22:22 < Mc> btw, any thought about what I wrote earlier about spam ?22:24 < CRogers> There's a Monty Python themed beer that just came available here in the museum gift shop that proclaims (among other things) to go good with SPAM22:24 < Mc> send some to the launchpad folks :p22:24 * CRogers grins22:25 < doctormon> Right message sent to bryce to get the mailing list vote out.22:25 < Tavmjong> Reptorian: Did you have something to say about Microsoft?22:26 < Reptorian> well, i sort wanted to start the voting process since the guy needs an answer, that's all22:26 < Reptorian> are we in for inkscape under windows store? it can be used as a beta testing ground22:27 < Mc> it's more of a technical matter22:27 < Tavmjong> Does anybody here object?22:27 < tweenk> If it's not super obnoxious to set up the build correctly, I would be in favor22:28 < doctormon> My objections have been noted in the mailing list.22:28 < Mc> tweenk: apparently they already have a version ready and are ready to lend manpower in the near future to help us with that22:28 < Mc> doctormon: he answered today to objections22:28 < Tavmjong> In principle, they can do what they want with it as long as they make the source available, correct?22:29 < Mc> yep22:29 < Tavmjong> So this is more of a courtesy thing.22:29 < Mc> the idea here is just that they would help us put it in our name22:29 < Tavmjong> I have no objections. Do we need a formal vote?22:29 < Mc> (I Fw'd the answer just before the meeting, he couldnt post to the ml for some reason)22:29 < Reptorian> yes, but i don't think microsoft will be touching inkscape unless of course, they asked if they can change inkscape22:30 < Ede_123> Did anybody ever say they would publish Inkscape without us agreeing?22:30 < Reptorian> if they use it for profit, that's bad news. if they use it to speed up inkscape development, that's good news22:30 < doctormon> Ah the forwarded message.22:30 < tweenk> Reptorian: it would be nice if they could just add a build target in CMake22:31 < Mc> I should try to get a win10 virtualbox some day to build and test22:31 < doctormon> Ede_123: Technically when people sell inkscape on ebay.22:31 < Reptorian> i think we should go with this only for visibility, and hopefully microsoft doesn't use it to generate profit22:31 < tweenk> Reptorian: using Inkscape for profit is actually not a breach of GPL, the only problem would be if they didn't provide source to what is on the store.22:31 < Ede_123> Otherwise I'm still pretty much opposed to play into Microsoft's hands by supporting their app store when we won't get much in return22:32 < doctormon> Reptorian: It doesn't really do either of those things. The idea is that Windows 10 gets more gerth in it's store and Inkscape gets to be installed in a blessed way on windows 10.22:33 < tweenk> Basically that store is intended to be a package manager for Windows, right?22:33 < Mc> yes22:33 < Reptorian> a small amount of people is kinda a small amount of visibility earned, and i'm thinking microsoft only asked because almost no one use the store22:33 < CRogers> I object to MS having it for profit. However, I wihtdraw that objection considering how miniscule that amoundt of money would be.22:33 < tedg> While I don't want to beat chests over free software, I always think that people using Free tools makes it easier for them to use Free OSes. Less to change at once.22:33 < Reptorian> I only used the store for Netflix and Xodo, and that's it22:33 < tedg> Even GCC got popular on proprietary Unix.22:34 < Ede_123> doctormon: tweenk: Yes, I know everybody could sell Inkscape, my question is more if Microsoft would be so rude to publish it on their own... (in which case we really better publish it ourselves, but that's not how I reqd the previous communication)22:34 < Mc> I think it will feel more like the normal way of installing inkscape in the future of windows, so it'll be good for visibility (wrt to already available Adobe stuff)22:34 < Ede_123> *read22:34 < tweenk> For me there is little difference between Windows Store and the Debian package archive or Chocolatey, the only difference is the identity of the gatekeeper22:34 < doctormon> tedg: That is a decent argument, although GCC's users were always able to patch gcc and help development ;-) while inkscape users make us lovely pictures.22:35 < doctormon> Ede_123: Maybe it's better we have control over the packages then.22:35 < tedg> doctormon: We just talked about needing art for merchandise ;-)22:35 < Tavmjong> Do we need a vote?22:35 < Ede_123> We need a maintainer...22:35 < Reptorian> tavmjong, well, we don't have a director, right?22:35 < tweenk> How much work is it to push a new version to that store?22:35 < doctormon> All keys, codes and passwords go to the board's key repository.22:35 < Ede_123> Microsoft does the first step, whatever bugs and future maintenance work piles up we habe to deal with ourselves...22:36 < Mc> Ede_123: I think you're the main person involved in windows builds, with jazzynico maybe22:36 < doctormon> If there's an account on Microsoft's systems, it should be generic if at all possible. InkscapeDevelopers22:36 < Ede_123> Yes, and I've been doing al the recent release builds and it has been a lot of work... I really dson't like the idea of adding yet anther package.22:37 < Mc> Can you talk with them to estimate how much hassle it would be ?22:38 < Mc> if it's just a new folder packaging/win10store/ with some easy-to-tune stuff or require major work at every release22:38 < Reptorian> ede123, sounds like inkscape needs some more manpower then22:38 < Ede_123> If the community really thinks that the app store will give us a significant gain we can probably manage the effort, but the overall impresison seems to be that we get it "for free" which is certainly not the case22:38 < Mc> Reptorian: news at 11 :p22:38 < doctormon> Mc: Is it possible to start keeping out packaging for specific system in their own git repository?22:38 < Mc> easier in git22:39 < doctormon> Reptorian: Dog bites man, man stops programming inkscape.22:39 < doctormon> My preference is for windows and mac specific packaging to be repositorised so they can be their own projects with their own contributor users.22:40 < doctormon> (if possible)22:40 < Tavmjong> OK, I need to go. I'm not sure what to conclude.22:40 < Ede_123> doctormon: Makes the meven less visible and less likely to get new contributions...22:40 < doctormon> Tavmjong: continue this on the mailing list22:41 < tweenk> Ede_123: it could help to mention them in README.md22:41 < Mc> Ede_123: my point of view on the matter is that it would probably beneficial; but that you are the one managing windows stuff, so it's ultimately up to you: if you feel that it would be too much for you, we can probably wait and if you think it's ok, then it's ok; but I think we have nothing to lose at having you discuss with them how much it would involve22:41 < Tavmjong> Let's continue this on the mailing list...22:41 < Tavmjong> (Or you can continue withoug me...)22:42 < Ede_123> Mc: I fear we agree now when Microsoft helps us (not out of good but for their own advantage) and are stranded with outdated/broken release later down the road22:43 < Mc> depends how much work/knowledge is needed to make it Work22:43 < Mc> Tavmjong: any other items for the board meeting ?22:43 < Ede_123> Stuff always sounds great at the start, but everything needs to be maintained, and even if everything only needs some maintenance effort it adds up over time...22:44 < Reptorian> Ede, they want to make their store more visible. if they want to help inkscape development, that's on them. but for now, i think it's more reasonable to expect that they'll just help with pushing release22:44 < Mc> (from the agenda I see Followup to sponsorship level [bryce] Mesh gradient feature followup [tav] Funded development [bryce] )22:44 < Reptorian> maybe down the road, if we accept this proposal, maybe they'll ask to improve inkscape22:45 < Ede_123> Reptorian: Yes, an Windows will be free...22:45 < Mc> ^^22:45 < CRogers> actually, it will be.22:45 < CRogers> free as in beer anyway.22:45 * Reptorian laughs a bit22:46 < Mc> we will probably keep beeing able to contact David and his team if something goes amiss at some point22:46 < Ede_123> CRogers: as long as your PC-manufacturer pays for it22:47 < tweenk> CRogers: the way MS's business is going, they would actually benefit from open sourcing Windows. Desktop software sales are like 10% of their revenue at this point22:47 < Tavmjong> Mc: We've gone way overtime... so any other things on the agenda can be postponed to the next meeting.22:48 < Tavmjong> (and bryce is not here).22:48 < Mc> what did you want to discuss about meshes ?22:48 < tweenk> OK, I have to run. See you everyone!22:48 -!- tweenk [tweenk@nat/google/x-ivounvickhbcaruh] has quit [Quit: Leaving]22:48 < Tavmjong> Mc: That's an old item... I don't have anything in particular to say about it now.22:48 < Mc> ok ^^22:48 < Tavmjong> OK, let's adjourn this meeting.22:49 < Tavmjong> ****** Meeting Adjourned ******
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