Apr 01 12:03:02 <Tavmjong> =============== Inkscape Board Meeting ===================Apr 01 12:03:15 <Tavmjong> Who is here?Apr 01 12:03:22 <ScislaC> I amApr 01 12:03:28 <Tavmjong> Me too!Apr 01 12:03:34 <ScislaC> bryceh_?Apr 01 12:03:43 <Tavmjong> tedg?Apr 01 12:04:12 <ScislaC> heya tweenkApr 01 12:04:12 <tedg> Me!Apr 01 12:04:16 <tweenk> hi!Apr 01 12:04:22 <tweenk> I dodn't forget this timeApr 01 12:04:25 <tweenk> *didn'tApr 01 12:04:27 <ScislaC> :)Apr 01 12:04:30 <Tavmjong> tweenk: Hi! tedg: Hi!Apr 01 12:05:37 <Tavmjong> Do we have an agenda? I've got a couple of questions for Bryce.Apr 01 12:05:50 <bryceh_> oh heyApr 01 12:06:03 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, no agenda today, just opens.Apr 01 12:06:13 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, so you got the floorApr 01 12:06:27 <Tavmjong> OK.Apr 01 12:06:39 <Tavmjong> ========== Hackfest ============Apr 01 12:07:21 <Tavmjong> We now have 10 people coming. The room contract was for 8. Tony needs an OK for the increased cost (lunch/breaks).Apr 01 12:08:02 <Tavmjong> I don't think we need a vote for this... or do we?Apr 01 12:08:03 <bryceh_> hrm, what's the increased cost?Apr 01 12:08:34 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, if the total remains within what we'd budgeted for, then I wouldn't think a revote is neededApr 01 12:08:35 <Tavmjong> New cost is 1,074 pounds. I'll have to search for old cost.Apr 01 12:08:56 <Tavmjong> We should definitely be under budget.Apr 01 12:09:00 <tweenk> Is Alex going to use his $2000?Apr 01 12:09:04 <bryceh_> you mentioned some of the travel costs we'd budgeted for came in low? Do you have a tally?Apr 01 12:09:19 <Tavmjong> bryceh_: Can you reply to Tony?Apr 01 12:09:34 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, no, I don't have the figuresApr 01 12:09:53 <Tavmjong> As tweenk points out, Alex is not going to use $2000. I am not going to use $2000.Apr 01 12:10:11 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, you can reply to Tony stating thatApr 01 12:10:15 <Tavmjong> See: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2016_AttendeesApr 01 12:10:23 <Tavmjong> OK, I'll reply to Tony.Apr 01 12:11:20 <Tavmjong> Bryce do you have the exact amount we budgeted?Apr 01 12:12:07 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, I can look it up, although didn't I confirm it in an email recently?Apr 01 12:12:38 <bryceh_> $5,000 for LGMApr 01 12:12:38 <Tavmjong> Next, after getting thumbs up for a majority of the board, I invited Olof Bjarnasnon to the hackfest with support for $500.Apr 01 12:12:45 <bryceh_> $600 for the dinnerApr 01 12:13:01 <bryceh_> $7,500 for leeds hackfestApr 01 12:13:07 <Tavmjong> For LGM, $3000 is allocated.Apr 01 12:13:54 <Tavmjong> For Hackfest $10800 is allocated (assuming everyone uses their full allocation).Apr 01 12:14:29 <tweenk> The participant page says it's $9500 for the hackfestApr 01 12:14:48 <Tavmjong> tweenk: I added $1300 for the room.Apr 01 12:15:08 <tweenk> Right... :)Apr 01 12:15:35 <Tavmjong> Is that $7,500 the total allocation? Or does it exclude donation for the hackfest?Apr 01 12:15:45 <bryceh_> total allocationApr 01 12:15:53 <bryceh_> there really hasn't been any donations for the hackfestApr 01 12:17:19 <Tavmjong> I think we should still be OK as Jabier isn't likely to use his full allocation.Apr 01 12:17:27 <tweenk> In the worst case there's $700 of shortfallApr 01 12:18:16 <tweenk> (If everyone uses the full allocation)Apr 01 12:18:45 <tweenk> I can pitch in $500 personally if we go over budgetApr 01 12:19:02 <Tavmjong> tweenk: Google paying you too much?Apr 01 12:19:06 <ScislaC> :PApr 01 12:19:08 <jabiertxof> I hope I`m near 1300€ maybe a bit moreApr 01 12:19:35 <jabiertxof> I try lessApr 01 12:20:01 <tweenk> Tavmjong: more like paying my dues to the project, I wouldn't be where I am now if not for Inkscape ;)Apr 01 12:20:15 <Tavmjong> tweenk: We appreciate it!Apr 01 12:20:42 <Tavmjong> So we should be fine...Apr 01 12:21:08 <bryceh_> just in case might be worth putting out a final call for donations; worst case it builds the kitty for next year?Apr 01 12:21:10 <tweenk> But given that not everyone has to go across the pond, I think we should easily have at least that $700 of slack in allocationsApr 01 12:22:11 <Tavmjong> I do think we might need a board vote for Olof's $500 since he isn't listed in the author's file.Apr 01 12:22:39 <tweenk> Do we have quorum here?Apr 01 12:23:18 <Tavmjong> We have five borad members. Doctormo and Jon are missing.Apr 01 12:23:25 <bryceh_> tweenk, guess so, but votes need to be on the ml for archivingApr 01 12:24:44 <Tavmjong> We have been archiving the IRC minutes, but it's probably easier to refer to the mailing list.Apr 01 12:25:01 <tweenk> OK let's do the vote over e-mail then.Apr 01 12:25:26 <tweenk> Can any board member call a vote? Do have to use a specific template for vote calls?Apr 01 12:25:45 <tedg> We have bryceh_ as a service ;-)Apr 01 12:25:51 <tedg> BaaSApr 01 12:26:19 <tweenk> tedg: I know, I just want to reduce the bus factor :)Apr 01 12:26:30 <tweenk> *increaseApr 01 12:26:55 <tedg> HehApr 01 12:26:59 <Tavmjong> tweenk: The board bzr repository has all the resolutions so one can use one of the old ones as a template.Apr 01 12:27:45 <Tavmjong> I can put one together this weekend and the Bryce can send it out.Apr 01 12:28:35 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, that works for meApr 01 12:28:45 <tweenk> Tavmjong: can you send me an URL to that? I'm a bit out of the loop on thisApr 01 12:28:51 <ScislaC> I think bryceh_ should start referring to himself as The Bryce around the house.Apr 01 12:29:03 <Tavmjong> Is there anything else we need to discuss about the Hackfest?Apr 01 12:29:09 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, make sure to word it as an exception for allowing this one specific person, not as a budget increase and not as an open ended funding of arbitrary peopleApr 01 12:29:12 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: That was a typo /the/then/Apr 01 12:29:28 <Tavmjong> bryceh_: OK.Apr 01 12:29:42 <ScislaC> I know, but him referring to himself in the 3rd person would be entertaining. :)Apr 01 12:29:53 <bryceh_> hehApr 01 12:29:56 <tweenk> I have nothing to discuss about the hackfest right now, but I want to discuss CI infrastructureApr 01 12:30:23 <Tavmjong> Can I first ask the bryceh_ a question?Apr 01 12:30:26 <bryceh_> one of the guys at work has taken to naming this wayland dock app thingee after me. Screws up my irc highlighting something horriblyApr 01 12:30:35 <tweenk> Tavmjong: go aheadApr 01 12:30:37 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, the bryce is all earsApr 01 12:30:58 <ScislaC> lolApr 01 12:31:38 <Tavmjong> After LGM I'll be staying in London for an SVG editing session. I'm not sure what was decided about needing or not the boards approval to use the remaining money in the SVG spec pool.Apr 01 12:33:16 <Tavmjong> There should be about $600 left after the Syndey trip.Apr 01 12:33:17 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, I have an action item to get that straightened up more for youApr 01 12:33:38 <Tavmjong> bryceh_: OK, thanks.Apr 01 12:33:39 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, yeah there's also been some donations coming inApr 01 12:33:49 <Tavmjong> Great!Apr 01 12:34:04 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, in general don't worry about it. If you need an answer urgently then we can do another vote as beforeApr 01 12:34:41 <bryceh_> otherwise, I'll go through Brad's directions and get stuff finalized on thisApr 01 12:34:45 <Tavmjong> No, don't need an urgent answer.Apr 01 12:35:43 <Tavmjong> OK, onto CI infrastructure?Apr 01 12:35:49 <bryceh_> okApr 01 12:36:07 <Tavmjong> ============= CI Infrastructure ===============Apr 01 12:36:27 <bryceh_> I'm loving the idea of not getting the daily "I'm broken" nag emails from jenkins ;-)Apr 01 12:36:48 <ScislaC> SeriouslyApr 01 12:39:59 <Tavmjong> tweenk: ????Apr 01 12:40:13 <tweenk> uh sorryApr 01 12:40:16 <tweenk> I got distractedApr 01 12:40:43 <tweenk> So the Jenkins server needs to be wiped clean and reinstalled at a minimumApr 01 12:40:48 <tweenk> But there are other optionsApr 01 12:40:57 <tweenk> Option A: turn that server into a runner for GitLabApr 01 12:41:04 <tweenk> Option B: use Travis CIApr 01 12:41:20 <tweenk> Option C: Keep the JenkinsApr 01 12:42:07 <Tavmjong> The prime consideration must be long term maintainability.Apr 01 12:42:33 <tweenk> Option A means we have control over builder configuration, but we have to maintain it. That's still far lower overhead than maintaining a Jenkins installationApr 01 12:42:52 <bryceh_> agreed, and esp. if we have folks signed on to follow up on failuresApr 01 12:43:18 <tweenk> Option B is mostly maintenance-free, but there's a build time limit of 60 minutes, if we want to increase that to 120 minutes we have to payApr 01 12:43:55 <tedg> What is our build time now? Is it over 60 min?Apr 01 12:43:55 <tweenk> Right now Inkscape comfortably fits within this limit, but if we start adding long-running unit tests it will notApr 01 12:44:02 <tweenk> no. let me checkApr 01 12:44:03 <tedg> (or is that presuming tests)Apr 01 12:44:06 <tedg> Ah, :-)Apr 01 12:44:58 <tedg> I'm kinda in favor of Travis CI for the maintenance issues if we're reasonably within the time.Apr 01 12:45:06 <bryceh_> if our build time is over 60 minutes I should think that itself is a kind of failure...Apr 01 12:46:00 <bryceh_> that said, I in principle am preferable to foss even if it incurs some maintenance responsibilitiesApr 01 12:46:15 <bryceh_> er, 'to foss for infrastructure'Apr 01 12:47:19 <tweenk> It's 16 mins on Linux and 26 mins on OSXApr 01 12:47:50 <tedg> Sure, I'm not against that. But it is still using FOSS for everything but the glue. GCC/Toolchain/etc.Apr 01 12:47:53 <bryceh_> tweenk, is that per testrun or per snapshot?Apr 01 12:48:08 <tedg> Per-commitApr 01 12:48:12 <tweenk> the build time limit is per jobApr 01 12:48:33 <tweenk> and the build normally runs per each commit / master mergeApr 01 12:48:46 <bryceh_> so if we were to add more tests beyond make check, we're adding time towards that limitApr 01 12:48:52 <tweenk> yesApr 01 12:49:13 <tweenk> unless we do something clever and upload the tests somewhere as part of the build, then run them in a separate jobApr 01 12:49:18 <bryceh_> what about disk storage space?Apr 01 12:49:45 <bryceh_> that's been the main headache with our current jenkinsApr 01 12:49:46 <tweenk> Travis CI does not provide persistent storage but you can upload stuff to your own serversApr 01 12:50:23 <bryceh_> and how much disk space is provided for running the job?Apr 01 12:50:43 <tweenk> Not sure but it's certainly enoughApr 01 12:51:08 <tweenk> The way Travis CI seems to work is that a separate cloud VM is spun for each jobApr 01 12:51:36 <bryceh_> can we log into the VM to diagnose failures directly?Apr 01 12:51:37 <tweenk> and I recall reading somewhere that they're on Google Cloud PlatformApr 01 12:52:04 <tweenk> bryceh_: no, you only get the build log, and only 10k lines of itApr 01 12:52:53 <tedg> You configure the VM with a YAML file. So you can build it yourself pretty easily.Apr 01 12:53:28 <bryceh_> who do we have to work on the issues that get flagged?Apr 01 12:53:53 <tweenk> tedg: do they provide scripts so that you can spin up an equivalent VM with your own GCP account?Apr 01 12:54:52 <tedg> tweenk: I haven't tried, but I'm pretty sure they use a Ubuntu cloud image, and then it's just the list of packages to add. Probably faster to cut-and-paste than to find the script :-)Apr 01 12:55:22 <tweenk> bryceh_: you mean build breakage? Ideally we would gate new merges / commits by the CI jobs passing so the CI is preventative, not an after-the-fact notificationApr 01 12:55:32 <tedg> +1Apr 01 12:56:02 <tweenk> bryceh_: that's another reason to opt for the GitLab or Travis CI solutions rather than running our own JenkinsApr 01 12:56:15 <tweenk> though you can actually integrate Jenkins with GitLab CIApr 01 12:56:58 <tweenk> So the main questions are: 1. Is 60 min enough, 2. Do we want to maintain our own runners?Apr 01 12:57:28 <tweenk> 3. Is it OK not to have Windows CI for the foreseeable future?Apr 01 12:58:13 <tweenk> Travis CI doesn't do Windows builds but there's AppVeyor that is a Windows equivalentApr 01 12:58:54 <tedg> I think. 1, yes. 2, no. 3, they run Ubuntu now anyway ;-)Apr 01 12:59:24 <tweenk> tedg: Ad.3 yea I heard that, but it's CLI only :)Apr 01 13:01:02 <tweenk> tedg: I'm not sure where that Ubuntu-on-Windows stuff will fit inApr 01 13:01:18 <valavanisalex> Hi AllApr 01 13:01:23 <bryceh_> hi valavanisalexApr 01 13:01:28 <tweenk> Hi Alex!Apr 01 13:01:33 <tedg> tweenk: I don't think does, more being silly.Apr 01 13:01:57 <tedg> tweenk: I'm not worried about Windows builders today, we're not losing anything, but consider it a nice-to-have.Apr 01 13:02:25 <bryceh_> moving to a CI gater is a way bigger step than just changing the current CI systemApr 01 13:03:19 <valavanisalex> Can't stay for too long, I'm afraid... any chance we can prioritise Hackfest stuff fairly early in the meeting?Apr 01 13:03:20 <bryceh_> it seems great in theory but I have deep skepticisms of it not becoming a huge headache in practiceApr 01 13:03:27 <tweenk> bryceh_: also it's all dependent on moving to GitApr 01 13:04:12 <tweenk> bryceh_: I use a CI gated system at work and it saved me a lot of headaches several timesApr 01 13:04:13 <bryceh_> tweenk, I'm totally +1 to decommissioning the current Jenkins systemApr 01 13:04:39 <tweenk> bryceh_: but it's dependent on having good tests, which we don't have :)Apr 01 13:05:00 <bryceh_> valavanisalex, you're actually off by an hour, we did discuss hackfest quite a bit earlier but feel free to raise any points you want discussed and we'll do them nowApr 01 13:05:36 <valavanisalex> Oh sorry... got my timings wrong! Was there anything you needed specific input on?Apr 01 13:05:42 <bryceh_> tweenk, then maybe our attention is better served investing in making better tests?Apr 01 13:06:11 <valavanisalex> Agreed that we need to invest much more effort in testsApr 01 13:06:44 <tweenk> bryceh_: it's all relatedApr 01 13:06:59 <tweenk> even without tests, we can at least guard against breaking the buildApr 01 13:07:13 <tweenk> and checking in non-cross-platform codeApr 01 13:08:06 <Tavmjong> We do have a test suite and if we could get that running again it would be a great help to avoid regressions.Apr 01 13:08:15 <bryceh_> valavanisalex, questions were mostly budget related. Tav did have an open question as to what the current total anticipated expenses were, to make sure other additions can be fitted in without going over the total budgetApr 01 13:08:38 <bryceh_> tweenk, again, all sounds great in theory...Apr 01 13:08:46 <tweenk> Tavmjong: I know there's a rendering test suite, but it's in a separate repo and may be a little dustyApr 01 13:09:49 <tweenk> bryceh_: it appears to work for 2Geom at leastApr 01 13:10:05 <ScislaC> tweenk: are you thinking of the one done by one of the GSoC students?Apr 01 13:10:16 <tweenk> ScislaC: yesApr 01 13:10:26 <Tavmjong> tweenk: Can the rendering suite be run automatically via CI?Apr 01 13:10:27 <FailBit> ayy lmaoApr 01 13:10:30 <FailBit> http://blog.llvm.org/2016/04/undefined-behavior-is-magic.htmlApr 01 13:10:34 <FailBit> the logo is a ponyApr 01 13:11:04 <tweenk> Tavmjong: didn't look into that, but most likely yesApr 01 13:11:36 <valavanisalex> Well, the lunches + refreshments + venue comes to ~£1000 for all delegates together. I'd estimate ~£30/person/day for other meals + local transport.Apr 01 13:11:40 <bryceh_> ok, we're over the hour. Is there anything else the board should discuss?Apr 01 13:11:42 <tweenk> Tavmjong: but AFAIK the suite just fires up Inkscape and tells it to export a PNG of somethingApr 01 13:11:51 <tweenk> Tavmjong: which may take a lot of timeApr 01 13:12:11 <Tavmjong> tweenk: It could be broken into sections.Apr 01 13:12:14 <tweenk> bryceh_: no further questions from meApr 01 13:12:43 <ScislaC> I've got nothing else.Apr 01 13:12:47 <valavanisalex> Can I just confirm that I'm OK to go ahead and book a meal for the hackfest as proposed?Apr 01 13:12:56 <Tavmjong> valavanisalex: We should be OK budget wise. Not everyone will use their full allocation.Apr 01 13:13:06 <tweenk> Tavmjong: yes. But we would still need external storage to transmit the compiled Inkscape from one job to anotherApr 01 13:13:17 <bryceh_> as to action items, tav's going to compose a vote for the non-member attendee reimbursement, Tav's going to answer Tony's Q's regarding hackfest budget, and I'm going to work on straightening out some SVG meeting budgetary bits for TavApr 01 13:13:19 <bryceh_> anything else?Apr 01 13:13:28 <valavanisalex> i.e., 10 people, traditional Yorkshire cuisine, ~£30/personApr 01 13:13:35 <bryceh_> ScislaC, brief status on GSoC? Need help on anything?Apr 01 13:13:39 <Tavmjong> valavanisalex: Yes, the budget for the dinner is already approved. ($600)Apr 01 13:14:07 <valavanisalex> OK great. Will keep you updated. Can discuss any further details by email.Apr 01 13:14:37 <ScislaC> bryceh_: It looks like we have 2 decent proposals. I need to look into their patch situation this afternoon and reach out if they haven't done what they need to yet.Apr 01 13:14:44 <bryceh_> oh also board members please vote on the issue I emailed you directly aboutApr 01 13:15:05 <Tavmjong> bryceh_: I think everyone has voted already.Apr 01 13:15:06 <bryceh_> ScislaC, ah yes, I was wondering about thatApr 01 13:16:43 <bryceh_> Tavmjong, ah you're right. I see I need to adjust my spam rules!Apr 01 13:17:01 <bryceh_> ok nevermind :-)Apr 01 13:17:06 <tweenk> ScislaC: Adrian already has 2 patches committed and is emailing me directly with some proof of concept codeApr 01 13:17:21 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: Kamalpreet still needs to do patches. She was trying to work on a non-trivial bug.Apr 01 13:17:22 <ScislaC> tweenk: Very nice to hear!Apr 01 13:17:43 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: I'll ping her tomorrow.Apr 01 13:18:09 <ScislaC> Tavmjong: should we encourage a lower hanging one as well?Apr 01 13:18:54 <Tavmjong> ScislaC: Yes! She seems to be quite capable. I would hate to lose her.Apr 01 13:19:09 <ScislaC> bryceh_: looks like my work is done for the day :P (j/k) I will email them both to directly introduce myself.Apr 01 13:19:45 <Tavmjong> Past my bedtime... good night...Apr 01 13:19:53 <bryceh_> thanks allApr 01 13:20:22 <tedg> Thanks The Bryce!Apr 01 13:20:26 <tedg> ;-)
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